Flat track fall rate

[KDeschino 0]

Hi Skydiving community, I am relatively new to the sport with only 92 jumps. Recently I wanted to work on flat tracking and did one solo jump where I tracked from 13k to about 6k in one direction. Then from 6k till 4k I stayed in a stable belly to earth position and waved/pulled at 4k.

This is what my pro track (mounted inside my helmet) said for fall rate... 1st half average-106 2nd half average-117 average for jump-112 max-123.

Now for my questions - What is a good flat track fall rate? Are my numbers even close to what I should be achieving in a flat track? Any tips on how to slow my fall rate even more?

Thanks,
Ken

Edited to add that I tried this wearing a freefly suit with no booties.

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Now for my questions - What is a good flat track fall rate? Are my numbers even close to what I should be achieving in a flat track? Any tips on how to slow my fall rate even more?

Your numbers or anyone's numbers don't mean jack.
The best way to find out if your tracking is flat enough is to have a vidiot go level with the base and watch you (an outside person) track away.
When the picture shows that the trackers gain altitude on the base, then the trackers did good.
Sorry I don't have video on hand to show you, but I've seen it many times before.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[billvon 3,070]

>What is a good flat track fall rate?

I've seen numbers as low as 80. The key is not how slow you can fall - it's how far you can get with the altitude you've got. The best trackers out there can track on level with their tracking team, then cover huge amounts of distance on level once the team breaks apart.

[davelepka 4]

It really depends on how much you weigh. If your more a bowling ball, than 106 isn't a bad number. If you're closer to a broom stick, than that 106 should probably be lower.

Another thing to look at is your fall rate during a regualr RW jump. If it's faster than 106/117, then you know you're slowing down during your track (which is good).

Like others mentioned, a slow fall rate is good because it gives you more time to track, but you still have get good forward speed to make use of that time.

One thing that stands out to me is that you tracked for 7k feet, then fell straight down and opened at 4k, and still made it to the DZ (you did make it back, right?). If you had good forward speed, 7k ft of tracking should have flown you far away from the DZ, and you probably wouldn't have made it back.

I'm assuming that you're tracking off the flight line, away from the DZ. If you don't know what I mean, do not do any more tracking dives until you have discussed jumprun, and which direction you should be tracking with an instructor from the DZ you're jumping at. Failure to do so can create a dangerous situation, and this process needs to be repeated at any new DZ you go to because procedures will vary from place to place.

That said, kudos for taking the time to learn how to track. It will take a few dedicated jumps, but you will eventually get the hang of falling slow and going far. You'll be able to see the fall rate on your Protrack, and during the jump you will be able to visually see your movement across the ground.

When you feel like you have a good handle on it, ask around at the DZ who is the hotshot tracker, and try a two way tracking jump with them. Not so they can blow your doors off and show off their skills, but so they can keep up with you and debrief you on your skills after the jump.

[KDeschino 0]

I wouldn't say I'm either a bowling ball or broom stick but have an average belly fall rate of 127ish (per the pro track).

I did make it back to my holding area just above 1k using some rear risers and partial breaks. The reason I stopped tracking when I did was because of how my distance from the dz.

Thanks for pointing the safety issue out for those that don't know but for the record, I did track perpendicular to the jump run. When I checked my spot I also check the jump run direction.

[davelepka 4]

That sounds pretty good then. Nice drop in fall rate. and you got yourself pretty far out. I'm sure you can tweak your body position and get even better results, just stick with it.

Good job on spotting and staying safe. Talk to the instructors anyway, and ask them what you can do to keep tracking for the whole jump. There are a couple of different schools of thought, all involve flying out and back in one way or another. See which one works best at your DZ.

[KDeschino 0]

Thanks for your help, I will talk to the instructors.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

>What is a good flat track fall rate?

I've seen numbers as low as 80. The key is not how slow you can fall - it's how far you can get with the altitude you've got. The best trackers out there can track on level with their tracking team, then cover huge amounts of distance on level once the team breaks apart.

OK, but to get down to 80 (which I can do if I leave my weight belt off) I have to have sufficient forward speed to create some lift. If I fall straight down I can't get below 100 in my RW suit.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[KDeschino 0]

Wow! 80 seems so slow. How much do you weigh without your weight belt and how long would it take you to reach that fall rate once you initiate the track?

[jakee 1,563]

Quote

Now for my questions - What is a good flat track fall rate? re my numbers even close to what I should be achieving in a flat track?

There's always room for improvement, and with some more practice jumps, and also really focusing on it whenever you break off from a formation, you'll probably improve a lot fairly quickly.

The main thing though, well done for actually caring about getting better! Tracking is a criminally underrated area of skill for many jumpers and it's always great to see people who get out there and work on it!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JanuszPS 0]

Quote

Your numbers or anyone's numbers don't mean jack.
The best way to find out if your tracking is flat enough is to have a vidiot go level with the base and watch you (an outside person) track away.

With all respect I don't really agree with that. Saying that I perfectly agree that when tracking in a group and following the leader shows the real ability to track, nevertheless to know how to track lots of dedicated jumps while playing with the body position and checking that against the numbers needs to be made.

So knowing that my personal best is 140km/h and average about 155km/h (just wearing a straight jeans and a normal jumper) I feel comfortable at brake off and I know that I won't sink even jumping first time in a large formation, because I know how to track.

Very often I jump formations with people who never have had made a single dedicated tracking jump and this is very visible. Before I jumped my first FS 10 way I already knew how to track after lots of tracking dives (mostly solo).

But my problem is that I LOVE tracking just after or equally as much as WS ;-)

just my opinion
janusz

PS: I'm not a super skinny guy, just normal average build with typical BMI

Back to Poland... back home.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

Wow! 80 seems so slow. How much do you weigh without your weight belt and how long would it take you to reach that fall rate once you initiate the track?

Exit weight 180 pounds (82kg)

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Arvoitus 1]

I haven't done a track as long as you did. The last jump I looked at the fall rate during the track it was about 88 (from my alti-track). I weight about 213 lbs (97kg) at exit and i'm about 6'1" tall.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Quote

Your numbers or anyone's numbers don't mean jack.
The best way to find out if your tracking is flat enough is to have a vidiot go level with the base and watch you (an outside person) track away.

With all respect I don't really agree with that. Saying that I perfectly agree that when tracking in a group and following the leader shows the real ability to track, nevertheless to know how to track lots of dedicated jumps while playing with the body position and checking that against the numbers needs to be made.

The key is how relative you are to the others in the group.
That group might be a tracking dive, first wave, second wave or third wave of a bigway.
Video is the best teacher.
Each wave in a bigway tracks slightly differently too, and they all need to flat track.

If you brought your numbers up to any bigway organizer and asked how you could improve, they wouldn't know the answer.
The answer would be to look at the video and see if you are tracking relative to your group and not passing the group in front of you.
Also the turn everyone makes to track has a big influence on the initial setup of the tracking group.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[JohanW 0]

Quote

Quote

Wow! 80 seems so slow. How much do you weigh without your weight belt and how long would it take you to reach that fall rate once you initiate the track?

Exit weight 180 pounds (82kg)

80 mph sustained is doable even with my exit weight of 216 pounds (at 6'1" - I could lose one or two pounds but then I'd have to downsize clown freefly-suit.

Going from 120 to 80 takes about 6 seconds.

But this is solo tracking, not separating at the end of an RW-jump. There, you want glide rather than whatever you want when tracking, which may be glide, distance or float. End of an RW-jump, I'm reaching 110 or thereabouts.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[JanuszPS 0]

Quote

If you brought your numbers up to any bigway organizer and asked how you could improve, they wouldn't know the answer.
The answer would be to look at the video and see if you are tracking relative to your group and not passing the group in front of you.
Also the turn everyone makes to track has a big influence on the initial setup of the tracking group.

Turns are very important, agree. That's why I nearly always start looking from above at most of the people from the formation while making the first turn. What you say is typical Big Way skill not only tracking skills, but whether with video or not the numbers say nearly everything.
I would say that every organizer would know what the numbers mean. The same as they operate with the falling speeds, aren't they? I also attend BWC and know that from fact.
just my opinion
regards
Janusz

Back to Poland... back home.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

nevertheless to know how to track lots of dedicated jumps while playing with the body position and checking that against the numbers needs to be made.

There where people tracking long before they had the "numbers" to go by and without dedicated jumps. And they would blow your shorts off. Jeff Davey, Lynn Fogleman, Jerry Swovelin and Mitch Poteet to name a few.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[hookitt 1]

[replyNow for my questions - What is a good flat track fall rate? Are my numbers even close to what I should be achieving in a flat track? Any tips on how to slow my fall rate even more?

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

[replyNow for my questions - What is a good flat track fall rate? Are my numbers even close to what I should be achieving in a flat track? Any tips on how to slow my fall rate even more?

I have no Idea. I track very fast and couldn't even begin to guess my fall rate. I could show you how to go fast horizontally and the fall rate would just settle in where it does.

You need to invest in more electronic number generators then you would know what your numbers are.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JanuszPS 0]

No doubt that there are... no doubt.
And so what? I have no problem with that.
there always are people around with lots of talent requiring less training.
Janusz

Back to Poland... back home.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

No doubt that there are... no doubt.
And so what? I have no problem with that.
there always are people around with lots of talent requiring less training.
Janusz

My point is don’t let the electronic gismos get in the way of you learning how to skydive.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[JanuszPS 0]

My point is: digits don't lie, otherwise I'm changing profession
They're great point of reference for comparison or training
janusz

Back to Poland... back home.

[hookitt 1]

Quote

My point is: digits don't lie, otherwise I'm changing profession
They're great point of reference for comparison or training
janusz

What don't they lie about? Fall rate? The 45 mentioned above is likely very false. You can't flare out of a track and slow down to 45 in normal skydiving clothing.

Your fall rate isn't going to tell you how fast you're going horizontally. You can fall pretty slowly and be fairly stalled out. Your horizontal speed won't be as good as it could be.

Using it as comparison would only be useful in conjunction with an accurate GPS.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[JanuszPS 0]

digits=comparison if alti installed in similar location obviously with some simplifications, that's what I meant. I'm not talking about very accurate and theoretical aspects of the true or false value. Also agree, that you might have different forward speeds but very often the slow vertical translate to horizontal in track. We speak about track and that means an intentional forward motion in order to gain distance in common sense.
If I say I track for X+ s from 4000 m and with average Y km/h speed that gives some indication (by common sense) to almost everybody.
Happy Xmass
janusz

Back to Poland... back home.