First clear and pull: out-of-body experience

[SKIandSKY 0]

Hello everyone,

New to the forum but not exactly new to skydiving. Did a tandem in 2003, two tandems in 2008, and started IAD progression last May. Saturday I did my last PTO and first clear and pull. When I let go of the strut, it was like I had a close up of my hand grabbing the pilot and beginning to pull it out. Then I was instantly "back in me again" and looking upwards as I should have been. How common is that? What happened anyway?

Thanks!

Greg

[Superfletch 1]

You freaked out... it's common... don't do it again... head up, arch hard... arch, reach, throw... It will get easier... calm down, relax and breathe... Have fun... enjoy the journey. :D

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

[Tomcat933 0]

What are your reasons for doing multiple tandems? If you tried one and liked it why not start learning to go solo on your next jump?

[packerboy 3]

Started IAD last May and just doing clear and pulls now? No offence, but are you sure this sport is for you?

At our dropzone, the entire freefall course must be paid up front and students MUST be at the dz at 8:00 am every Sat. and Sun. ready to do 3 jumps per day until the course is done. Dragging the course out that long seems to be very counterproductive and perhaps dangerous.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[jurgencamps 0]

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No offence, but are you sure this sport is for you?
At our dropzone, the entire freefall course must be paid up front and students MUST be at the dz at 8:00 am every Sat. and Sun. ready to do 3 jumps per day until the course is done.

Euh ????

[GaryRay 0]

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Started IAD last May and just doing clear and pulls now? No offence, but are you sure this sport is for you?

At our dropzone, the entire freefall course must be paid up front and students MUST be at the dz at 8:00 am every Sat. and Sun. ready to do 3 jumps per day until the course is done. Dragging the course out that long seems to be very counterproductive and perhaps dangerous.

im just gonna go out on a limb here and tell you not to listen to him, that is probably the most retarded thing i ever heard and if i knew what DZ you learned at i would not recommend any of my friends to go learn there.

this sport is supposed to be fun, you should not have to enter a contract to get into it. now i can see why your dz requires you to pay all up front, no-one likes to waste there time, thats why some DZ's require 2 tandems or 1 tandem and 15min in the tunnel. dont you think requiring someone to do 3 jumps in a day during a learning environment could be dangerous, maybe too much sensory overload, not enough decompression time, and not enough time to debrief could cause the student not to learn everything that they should be learning?

but for you to tell him that this sport isnt for him i dont think you have grasped the reason we all go to the dropzone, do you know what reason he has only been able to do x amount of jumps in x amount of time?...no? ok then. i did 3 tandems before i started learning, there is nothing wrong with that.

maybe you should go bowling or something and stay away from the dz for a while before your head gets so big that you bury yourself into the ground trying to swoop.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[Andy9o8 2]

It was normal sensory overload, and it dimishes if you keep jumping with a fair amount of frequency.

Ignore those other two unrelated "questions"; they're silly distractions and do nothing to address the question you asked.

[squirrelgirl 0]

Two jumps a day has been my physical and financial limit and I've been told this is perfectly alright.

The sport is for anyone willing to work enough for it and love it enough to stick with it. Nobody's going to be perfect on their first try!

[Parafoil27 0]

Not to mention it's not always the student who is at fault for dragging it out. It took me over a year to get my license because the DZ i was going to had problems.

EARTH! Short bus of the universe,
since the year T+10.3 billion!

REV. DUDEMIESTER D.S.#120

[skydance1954 0]

I'm gonna go with GaryRay on this one. The student has time and finanical limits. They go through the course at their own rate, not due to an arbitrary business decision on the part of the school. Will you progress faster if you're at the DZ every weekend? Yes. But that's up to the student as to what (s)he can handle.

If you really want it, you'll make it happen

Mike Ashley
D-18460
Canadian A-666

[SKIandSKY 0]

Thanks guys,

I didn't pay any attention to those negative guys, I hardly think I "freaked out" as I did it perfectly (according to the instructors) and am here today! (To those guys, I flew my first plane at age 16 and was a licensed pilot at age 18, before I left high school). I'm also a ski instructor and would never tell a student something like that.

I started at Carolina Sky Sports in NC. I think they wanted everyone to go tandem first then AFF. When in 2008 I decided to jump again (no health insurance be damned) I went back to CSS for the second jump and started their progression program. Then the place closed down 2 weeks later. The place I jump now wants everyone to progress via IAD and that place is a 3 hours one-way drive for me. There are NO dropzones in all of my state (WV). I also am making minimum wage, so funds are tight. Now you know.

I think I'll email one of my old psychology professors with the same question, get some professional input. I look at it as just an extreme adrenaline rush and it just added to the fun. Think how many dope heads had to drop acid to have the same experience!

Greg

[SKIandSKY 0]

"Breathe?" People breathe when they jump???

I totally forgot to breathe....that was a bit embarrassing...and me a pilot! Argh!

Next jump won't be for at least a couple of weeks, thanks for the encouragement.

GREG

[pontiacgtp00 0]

Don't worry, Larry is the safest jumper I've ever met...he'll take care of you.

[tjm 0]

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Not to mention it's not always the student who is at fault for dragging it out. It took me over a year to get my license because the DZ i was going to had problems.

Parafoil, glad you made it that far. Being from the same DZ I know how hard the times have been the last few years. I had my liscenses just in time before the sh*t hit the fan. You goin to make it out the Crowely one of these days?

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[mdrejhon 8]

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im just gonna go out on a limb here and tell you not to listen to him, that is probably the most retarded thing i ever heard and if i knew what DZ you learned at i would not recommend any of my friends to go learn there.

I have to come to a little bit of a defense, because it is the same dropzone that I learned at, and got my A, B and C licenses at.

I have to clarify what packerboy said, as he described it a little too extreme. He is right about the whole PFF course being paid up front, as this is also the case at nearly all dropzones in this particular country too. However, you don't necessarily do 3 jumps a day; you just have to ready to *commit* to 8am Sat/Sun for consecutive weekends. The dropzone wants to make sure you stay current from start-to-finish, and the dropzone prefers to assign the same instructor to the same student for all progression jumps, which is easiest if it's a consecutive progression. The dropzone wants to accurately schedule the student without being bumped by tandems. It is a small dropzone with between one and three Cessna's, with the occasional Twin Otter boogie weekend, and it's difficult to schedule students and tandems if they all call spontaneously at the last minute, and the student waits on the ground all weekend long. The dropzone is simply trying to make sure the student is safe.

There is definitely flexibility in there, if the weather is super-bad (major tropical storm forecast, etc), you can call the dropzone to confirm, or that you need to spend one weekend a month at a job, etc, having only two or three consecutive weekends at the peril of weather, or every other weekend. While somewhat stricter than some drozones, it's definitely not military-strict. It won't mean the automatic loss of the program if one weekend in a month is unavailable, as long as advance notice is given. Obviously, they want to make sure you feel, in principle, that you can be commited to the sport of skydiving safely enough to stay current, and that the instructor can teach you safely and consistently in a proper progression.

[SKIandSKY 0]

I can understand that to a point: it would be great to get people to commit to getting it done timely and on a regular basis, but at the same time I feel having to pay so much cash up front would keep many people away (class discrimination) and likely hurt business for the drop zone. I do notice some slight differences in technique style instructor-to-instructor, but since they are all successful, each way must work. I do have people I prefer over others, but that's not a biggie. If I had the money, I would get a motel (hate air mattresses) and do at least two jumps a day for a week or two.

I do have some cash saved up (lots of bartending this summer) and may be able to camp out (ugh) or get that motel to get in a few jumps at once at the DZ. I've been thinking about just that for some time.

As it is now, going for a jump is an all-day event, sometimes I leave the house before dawn and return near midnight.

Greg

[MikeJD 0]

On my first ever jump (static line from the step of a C182) I distinctly remember that I felt quite detached from the experience. My perspective didn't change, but it was as though I were watching someone else's arms and legs as I was climbing out.

I think that's a normal reaction to an 'extreme' situation, and it sounds as though yours was just an extension of it.

We're encouraged to visualise in this sport - it helps us succeed. You were visualising (vividly and maybe involuntarily) a crucial action that you needed to complete, while you were doing it.

Obviously your body did what it was supposed to do, so I don't see why this should ring any alarm bells. You may well find now you've done your first one that it never happens again.

[Andy9o8 2]

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(no health insurance be damned)

FYI, a "simple" ankle fracture - a pretty common skydiving injury - can easily rack up $80K+ in medical bills if it has to be surgically repaired (and many do).

[mdrejhon 8]

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I feel having to pay so much cash up front would keep many people away (class discrimination) and likely hurt business for the drop zone.

To the best of my knowledge, nearly all dropzones in Ontario and Quebec require full payment up front.

Some do have refund polcies if you change your mind, or that the cash can be transferred over to tandems, or to someone else, depending on the dropzone.

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I would get a motel (hate air mattresses) and do at least two jumps a day for a week or two.

That's funny; I actually find them quite comfortable -- although I got a fairly big one and I tend to slightly underinflate it, ever slightly, so that it feels soft while lying on my side or back, with no noticeable pressure points, slipped inside a sleeping bag. Can experiment with firmer/softer inflation by letting air out, etc.

[GaryRay 0]

i never said i didnt understand it, and its good to know that it wasnt to the extent that packerboy described, and i can also understand the reasoning, i simply went off what packerboy said. thanks for clearing up the gray area bigway.

the entire pay up front thing i have no problem with, i couldnt do it myself, but if you are dedicated enough, you can get a CC and pay for all of it =D, always a way.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[packerboy 3]

It's not about the money at the dz I speak about. It's about currency and staying safe.

I apologize to the dz if I came off sounding like it is militaristic. It is not. It is a fantastic fun place to be and a great place to learn from some of the most experienced instructors in Canada. It is not the highest volume, but is the longest running privately owned dz in Canada and has been running longer than probably 99% of dz's in the states. The dz and the guy making these rules INVENTED some of the methods still used for training at a lot of dz's all over the world. He knows what he is doing. Riggers that grew up there now design the parachutes that you are jumping and the reserves on most of your backs. (If you are a crazy competition swooper.)

The simple fact of the matter is that a student is not going to learn properly and safely dragging the course out over a year. The things you learn as your course progresses build upon those things that you learn as it begins. 2 months between AFF jumps and you are not building upon anything. You are taking one step forward and one back.

It is unsafe. As simple as that. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. I know most of you will leave it and I don't really care. I am not wavering on it, no matter how much internet post whoring and bullshit statistics you can throw at me

The guys will understand if you have commitments for a weekend (maybe even two). But they need to know that you are committed to staying current and staying safe. If you are not committing to finishing the course than there is no point in starting it. If you can't afford the money up front to pay for the course, than maybe you can't afford to skydive enough to stay current enough to stay safe.

AFF or PFF, or whatever you want to call it, at this dz is not about the (skydive by yourself) carnival ride. It is about learning how to not kill yourself. There will be plenty of time after you are done the course to go do whatever the f' you want.

I couldn't afford it, so I learned how to pack. I packed my friggen ass off for sometimes 14 hrs a day so I could jump.

If you guys want to tell this guy that stretching his course out over a year is just fine and dandy and no big deal and safe as anything then you go ahead. Just don't ever ask about currency in the incident forums. IMO there is no more important time to be as current as you can than during your initial course.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[oozzee 0]

very good

[mdrejhon 8]

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Riggers that grew up there now design the parachutes that you are jumping and the reserves on most of your backs. (If you are a crazy competition swooper.)

I miss seeing one of that rigger too, he was a great guy when he was a regular in '05 thru '07, and helped organize some of the first big ways I was on.

[packerboy 3]

I believe he was a regular from the early 80's untill '07 ;) Maybe even the 70's. Gilles' a geezer.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[SKIandSKY 0]

Well guys,

I jumped again two weekends in a row, twice each visit day. Had to go back and do another PTO (saw that one coming) then another clear and pull. Guess what! No more pseudo acid trips! I also didn't work myself up like I did that first time but even that experience was pretty neat and definately new to me. Makes for a hell of a story too! LOL

Last two jumps were from 5,500 feet and I'm all pumped up for my next couple maybe next week.

Packerboy (AKA "hateful guy"---couldn't resist ) is right in many ways, but I just can't manage a trip to KY each weekend. I am planning on getting a motel and jumping two days in a row, shooting for 5 jumps total (and have been planning that for some time since I too understand the impact of jumps close together). Have a great week everyone! Ski season is here....hit the slopes!