bmason81 0 #1 May 26, 2005 I was recalling a freefly jump that I did with 2 friends a while back and due to getting out too far before the dz and the winds being a steady twenty plus no one on the load made it back to the landing area. We all landed at the beach park near the dz except for my friend who for some reason did not follow us to the park. He ended up landing in the wooded area wear it took him over and hour and a half to make it back through the woods. The woods are so dense that even from the plane we would have not been able to locate him for a long time if at all. So if he got hurt and we had to do a foot search it would have taken a very long time to find him. When he finally made it back to the dz I asked him why didnt he think to land next to the runway. I know that we are not supposed to because of traffic but our load was the last load of the day so the plane was already at the hangar before we landed. I talked to some people at the dz and they disagreed with me saying that you should never land next to the runway, but I think that given the chances of getting hurt landing in the woods and not being able to get help right away I would land next to the runway, any thoughts? care to put in your 2 cents?pull low, fly fast, PLF! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #2 May 26, 2005 Which DZ - and do you have any overhead photos??? Every DZ I have been to (4) we have landed "next to the runway"... Depends on what "next to" really means I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmason81 0 #3 May 26, 2005 dillingham airfield skydive hawaii, there is a lot of traffic as there are two companies at the airfield plus glider rides and a biplane ride, but it was at the end of the day all the other companies were shut down, it seems the people I talked to just had this thought set in stone with no room for a different point of view.pull low, fly fast, PLF! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 May 26, 2005 It depends of the local rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #5 May 26, 2005 I think the paramount rule of thumb is making sure you don't cross through approach and take-off lanes while under canopy, or cross over the runway below 500 feet... I'd have to check the SIM for the exact rule..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedyGonzales 0 #6 May 26, 2005 I've landed next to the runway once in a similar situation. It was the first load of the day and we didn't get the spot quite right. I decided that rather than cross the runway at less than 1000 ft, I would just land next to the runway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustaBill 0 #7 May 26, 2005 QuoteI've landed next to the runway once in a similar situation. It was the first load of the day and we didn't get the spot quite right. I decided that rather than cross the runway at less than 1000 ft, I would just land next to the runway. I've done this a few times. Rather than cross the runway to get to the landing area I just landed across it in the field. I was also told when you do that if there is an aircraft on the runway or on final to landing to kneel down. This lets the pilot know you see him and aren't gonna walk out in front of him. And I also didn't land right next to it, I gave about 50-75 yards cushion.------------------------------------------------ I've done so much, with so little, for so long I'm now expected to do everything with nothing forever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G.Anvil 0 #8 May 26, 2005 Landing Priorities; 1- Wings Level 2- Clear and open area 3- Flare 4- Into wind if possible Thats what matters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #9 May 26, 2005 Runways matter too, both for your safety and for whoever might be on a plane. The plane doesn't have as many outs as we have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyinseivLP2 0 #10 May 26, 2005 QuoteRunways matter too, both for your safety and for whoever might be on a plane. The plane doesn't have as many outs as we have. ?????This makes no sense. Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. I understand if the airport doesn't want skydivers landing there, but if that is my only out then I will surely land there. It's better for someone to be mad at you than for you to be injured landing in an unsafe area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #11 May 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteRunways matter too, both for your safety and for whoever might be on a plane. The plane doesn't have as many outs as we have. ?????This makes no sense. Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. I understand if the airport doesn't want skydivers landing there, but if that is my only out then I will surely land there. It's better for someone to be mad at you than for you to be injured landing in an unsafe area. If a plane is taking off and is shortly past the "no turning back" point of speed and runway location, if an obstacle appears in front of them they can be screwed - too much energy to get on the ground and stop before hitting something but not enough energy to change direction to avoid the obstacle and keep flying. "Next to" the runway may or may not be in an airplane's way. We assume it wouldn't be in their way, unless next to the paved runway is the grass runway. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #12 May 26, 2005 Without a map, I can't say much about this. Are there large open areas scattered all around? If so, landing away from the wooded area and away from the runway could have been a great plan. What was the "wooded area" like? Lots of super-big trees, or brush and small, flexible trees? Did he land in a bare scar or glen in the middle of the wooded area, then had to walk a long way out through thick terrain? -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites G.Anvil 0 #13 May 26, 2005 A busy runway isnt a 'clear' and open area, but if its the only option I'll pick next to a runway rather than trees any day. Sounds like the beach park was the best option all round Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #14 May 26, 2005 Landing on/near a runway isn't necessarily dangerous. Planes do it all the time, right? It's not a good thing to do... airport managers don't like it, pilots don't like it, and it could be unsafe if there are any planes trying to use that runway. But if it's a runway with no traffic nearby vs dense woods, water, buildings, powerlines, etc, I'd take the runway. Sure it's best to avoid the situation altogether, but under some conditions, the hazards associated with a runway landing might be less risky than the alternatives. Just freaking get off the runway ASAP and buy your beer... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #15 May 26, 2005 QuoteA busy runway isnt a 'clear' and open area, but if its the only option I'll pick next to a runway rather than trees any day. Ah, if you incorporate it into the clear and open heading on priority #2, that works for me. I just think it needs highlighting, because it should be avoided to the greatest extent possible. Planes have motors, but they can only go forward at a much more limited range of speeds, esp near the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #16 May 27, 2005 Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, yes. However, given the limited manuverability of most airplanes at tak-eoff and landing speeds, walking in front of an airplane will feel the same as stepping in front of a fast-moving truck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #17 May 27, 2005 Quote Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. That's assuming the pilot sees you in time, and is able to do a power-up go around without any problem. Keep in mind that landing is the most difficult and dangerous phase of flight. Not all pilots are experienced professionals. Just as we have jumpers who can barely land under the best of conditions, there are pilots who will have a hard time dealing with anything new or unexpected. A pilot is often task focused and may not see you. He will also be flying at a very slow airspeed, and if he is not ready for a go around, that low airspeed could put him into a stall or loss of control. If you do find yourself landing on the runway, move away from it very quickly. Landing on or near the runway might not be such a big deal at a small private airport with only skydiving operations, but at a larger public use airport with lots of pilots who are not jumpers it can be a big problem. Landing on or near a runway is dangerous and has very negative political consequences within the general aviation community. Land away from the runway if possible. Make your decision far enough in advance that you have multiple options and can pick a better landing area. If you have no other choice but to land on the runway, then do it, move away quickly, then reevaluate why you were ever in that position in the first place. A better spot or improved advance strategic canopy flying should prevent jumpers from ever needing to land on an active runway. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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kelpdiver 2 #9 May 26, 2005 Runways matter too, both for your safety and for whoever might be on a plane. The plane doesn't have as many outs as we have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #10 May 26, 2005 QuoteRunways matter too, both for your safety and for whoever might be on a plane. The plane doesn't have as many outs as we have. ?????This makes no sense. Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. I understand if the airport doesn't want skydivers landing there, but if that is my only out then I will surely land there. It's better for someone to be mad at you than for you to be injured landing in an unsafe area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #11 May 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteRunways matter too, both for your safety and for whoever might be on a plane. The plane doesn't have as many outs as we have. ?????This makes no sense. Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. I understand if the airport doesn't want skydivers landing there, but if that is my only out then I will surely land there. It's better for someone to be mad at you than for you to be injured landing in an unsafe area. If a plane is taking off and is shortly past the "no turning back" point of speed and runway location, if an obstacle appears in front of them they can be screwed - too much energy to get on the ground and stop before hitting something but not enough energy to change direction to avoid the obstacle and keep flying. "Next to" the runway may or may not be in an airplane's way. We assume it wouldn't be in their way, unless next to the paved runway is the grass runway. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #12 May 26, 2005 Without a map, I can't say much about this. Are there large open areas scattered all around? If so, landing away from the wooded area and away from the runway could have been a great plan. What was the "wooded area" like? Lots of super-big trees, or brush and small, flexible trees? Did he land in a bare scar or glen in the middle of the wooded area, then had to walk a long way out through thick terrain? -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G.Anvil 0 #13 May 26, 2005 A busy runway isnt a 'clear' and open area, but if its the only option I'll pick next to a runway rather than trees any day. Sounds like the beach park was the best option all round Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #14 May 26, 2005 Landing on/near a runway isn't necessarily dangerous. Planes do it all the time, right? It's not a good thing to do... airport managers don't like it, pilots don't like it, and it could be unsafe if there are any planes trying to use that runway. But if it's a runway with no traffic nearby vs dense woods, water, buildings, powerlines, etc, I'd take the runway. Sure it's best to avoid the situation altogether, but under some conditions, the hazards associated with a runway landing might be less risky than the alternatives. Just freaking get off the runway ASAP and buy your beer... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #15 May 26, 2005 QuoteA busy runway isnt a 'clear' and open area, but if its the only option I'll pick next to a runway rather than trees any day. Ah, if you incorporate it into the clear and open heading on priority #2, that works for me. I just think it needs highlighting, because it should be avoided to the greatest extent possible. Planes have motors, but they can only go forward at a much more limited range of speeds, esp near the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 May 27, 2005 Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In theory, yes. However, given the limited manuverability of most airplanes at tak-eoff and landing speeds, walking in front of an airplane will feel the same as stepping in front of a fast-moving truck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #17 May 27, 2005 Quote Planes have so many more out than we do. We only have one chance to land, they can power up and do it again. That's assuming the pilot sees you in time, and is able to do a power-up go around without any problem. Keep in mind that landing is the most difficult and dangerous phase of flight. Not all pilots are experienced professionals. Just as we have jumpers who can barely land under the best of conditions, there are pilots who will have a hard time dealing with anything new or unexpected. A pilot is often task focused and may not see you. He will also be flying at a very slow airspeed, and if he is not ready for a go around, that low airspeed could put him into a stall or loss of control. If you do find yourself landing on the runway, move away from it very quickly. Landing on or near the runway might not be such a big deal at a small private airport with only skydiving operations, but at a larger public use airport with lots of pilots who are not jumpers it can be a big problem. Landing on or near a runway is dangerous and has very negative political consequences within the general aviation community. Land away from the runway if possible. Make your decision far enough in advance that you have multiple options and can pick a better landing area. If you have no other choice but to land on the runway, then do it, move away quickly, then reevaluate why you were ever in that position in the first place. A better spot or improved advance strategic canopy flying should prevent jumpers from ever needing to land on an active runway. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
