So, erm, do the wind restrictions on students mean the steady speed, or the occasional gusts?

[grue 1]

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT:

I cannot read a frickin' weather forecast. I thought it said "5-8mph gusting to 16-17mph in the afternoon",

it said "5-8 mph INCREASING to 16-17mph in the afternoon"

cavete terrae.

[pilotdave 0]

well...imagine the wind is 5 knots then suddenly a 16 knot gust hits. That's a change of 11 knots. That's a huge gust that could really wreak havoc on canopies. Nobody should be jumping with an 11 knot gust factor. That could bring your canopy from 20 knots to 9 knots in a heartbeat.... it won't like that.

While you couldn't jump anyway, if the winds were 14 gusting to 17 you'd probably be safer.

Dave

[tmontana 0]

Where i jump it includes gusts, but as long as the wind stays below the 15mph limit for 30min? they'll take us up.

___________________________________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

[Kris 0]

That's enough of a change to keep me on the ground.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[tdog 0]

Quote

well...imagine the wind is 5 knots then suddenly a 16 knot gust hits. That's a change of 11 knots. That's a huge gust that could really wreak havoc on canopies. Nobody should be jumping with an 11 knot gust factor. That could bring your canopy from 20 knots to 9 knots in a heartbeat.... it won't like that.

Dave

What he said... The change in wind scares me (and those with 40 years more experience than me) more than wind itself... Rode the plane down last weekend when it went from 13 to 22 in three seconds. So did 13 other people, including the guy with decades of experience.

[bigorangemd 0]

Begin final with a 5-6 mph steady wind, everything is groovy for a great landing. A sudden gust to 17 mph can cause you to become firmly entrenched in your hobby..if you can smell what the Rock's cookin'.

[jasonRose 0]

Hey I'm a student too but I would have to say if the winds are gusting like that it would be a good day to get some of your ground requirements out of the way!! Remember that there is always another good day to jump, but if you push it that might be your last day to jump.

The weather sucks here too, I can feel your frustration. Stiff winds can screw up your day if you exit at the wrong spot you might not make your DZ and end up landing in someones back yard or even worse it can land you in the hospital.

Trust your instructors judgement then question it by seeing if you are comfortable with it.

I'm a student so basically I don't know shi-.
BLUE SKY'S
Jason

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[pilotdave 0]

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it said "5-8 mph INCREASING to 16-17mph in the afternoon"

Get there early!
Dave

[bob.dino 1]

Exactly!

Get there well before first load - time to get briefed, geared up, and on that first load! Let manifest know that you want to go as hard as possible because the weather's going to close in and see what you can do...

[Amazon 7]

SOOO are you going to bet on how fast its blowing.. AS you are preparing to land....

Just a thought

[mjosparky 4]

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including the guy with decades of experience.

How do you think he survived in this sport for all those years?

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mdrejhon 8]

On my 8-jump weekend (PFF training), I was on both the first load of the day and the last load (sunset) of the day. I was on the sunset load on the day prior too, so that was two sunset loads in one weekend! That was fun.

On the first load of the day (5th PFF jump): I landed in the pea gravel. That was a welcome change from the day prior's offzone landing! (I was definitely backing up during that landing)

I had a few wind holds because winds were gusty and unpredictable. The forecast was as high as 27kph winds. But I got back to "home field" on all 4 jumps that Sunday on my student Manta 288 moving in a forward motion. One time I almost had no forward motion. (It was windiest for me early on, including during the first jump of the day, I was barely moving forward - so that was easier for me to aim at the landing zone just by crabbing and holding to "back up" above the landing spot during my approach, and then do a near vertical descent on my final approach, with just slight forward motion. On my flare, canopy flew backwards and I planted my butt into the pea gravel.)

[RossDagley 0]

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Begin final with a 5-6 mph steady wind, everything is groovy for a great landing. A sudden gust to 17 mph can cause you to become firmly entrenched in your hobby..if you can smell what the Rock's cookin'.

Forgive my noob-ness, but wouldn't it be the other way round thats the issue? strong winds (say 20 mph) then nothing (5mph say) just as your at 75ft or whatever?

[jmidgley 0]

If you're standing on a field, it's tempting and understandable to have a 'point' view of what's going on with the wind - "It's windy NOW... it's not so windy NOW".

For many people, flying a canopy only adds one more dimension - "It's bumpy HERE... man, I'm getting gusted HERE"

If air wasn't transparent, things would be different - if you could see the three dimensional picture, you'd know DAMNED WELL why it was worth sitting this one out.

Let me have a crack at a typical scenario. It was chilly last night, but it's going to be a scorcher today. Maybe a cold front blew through yesterday or the day before. Large chunks of air are getting heated up by all those convenient things like hangars and runways - or that ploughed field half a mile away upwind. As the heated air rises, it's got to suck in air quickly, and at ground level, it's can only do that horizontally. If the general drift is 10Kts and it's pulling in air at 10Kts, then you're looking at a 20Kt gust. Elsewhere, not too far away, someone is thinking "Wow, it went quiet all of a sudden". Someone else on final will see the sock change direction. Wind blades, streamers on short posts and windsocks pointing in different directions, circling birds who aren't flapping - these are all worth watching for. Cumulus clouds too - when the wind drops, look *upwind*; depending on how far away the source was, there may be a cloud which is sucking all that air. As it passes overhead (or to one side) be prepared for the wind to increase or change direction. But there are days when conditions are right for forming thermals ("unstable" is the term I know, but it may not be the right technical one), but not for forming clouds at the top of them.

If you happen to fly into one of these columns of air, you could be in for a unpleasant surprise. The boundary between the ascending air and its surroundings is mixing turbulently. It would be usual to find areas where the air was going down almost as fast as the main colum was ascending. You're flying an aircraft which stays aloft only by virtue of the pressure in its cells. Good luck.

The summary - it's not the wind speed alone that's the issue; sure, the canopy can fly at 20Kts (or whatever). It's that the *difference* in wind speed is a good indication that something is happening nearby that might cause a pilot of a rigid wing glider to rub their hands together gleefully, but that should encourage floppy-wing pilots to consider leaving it in the bag.

John

[RossDagley 0]

Thanks John for the very informative post

[Orange1 0]

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, but that should encourage floppy-wing pilots to consider leaving it in the bag.

well, just us - paragliding pilots will be out there hunting for those thermals

having had a canopy half collapse from turbulence at about 200ft i can say it's pretty scary - i imagine it would have been a helluva lot more scary at 50ft

thanks for the para on things to look out for - useful stuff

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Trust me, in that kind of weather its better stay on ground.

Its better to stay on ground and wish you were up than be mid-air and wish you were on the ground.

[Orange1 0]

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Trust me, in that kind of weather its better stay on ground. Its better to stay on ground and wish you were up than be mid-air and wish you were on the ground.

i'm aware of that... it was only jump 8 or 9 so i was fully on 'student wind status' anyway, and it didn't seem at all turbulent when we went up... but sometimes there, especially with a cessna, the winds are not the same when you get down as they were when you went up.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[phoenixlpr 0]

yeah. I had 40-60 degrees of heading change on final from the wind. I did not look nice.

[adamsr 0]

gusts are bad, i've been in a situation where on finals it was really gusty, just look up and my canopy is doing a good impression of an accordian, scared the shit out of me!

i went to 1/4 brakes to try and help the canopy stay inflated, and at one point seemed to be gaining altitude, or at least planing out just from the wind.

I got down safely, but a couple of people on the load had hard landings due to being dropped a bit by a gust. needless to say it was called for the day after that!

[riggerrob 643]

When winds gust around 22 knots, you get some nasty vertical movement.
That is when I refuse to jump.

[adamsr 0]

yeah if i'd have known i'd have refused to jump, but the DZ is right next to the coast and you get some funky winds up there, 1 minute it's fine, the next it's blowing a gale.

Plus that day the winds were coming from the direction of an industrial estate on the boundary of the DZ so the air was very turbulent. not fun!!

[Designer 0]

Just recently we had a odd condition 7-11mph with gust to 25!Humm,we sat!Not until 3 pm that afternoon did the winds show any sign of not gusting so high.Remember boys and girls steady winds won't kill ya,those sudden gusts will.That is all!

[mdrejhon 8]

After my first turbulence experience (fortunately became smooth by the time I went to 100ft), I'd rather jump 20mph steady wind and land backwards, than to land in turbulence with near-zero wind 2mph with sudden 14mph gusts.

I also have already landed backwards before, once (standup) on a lightly loaded student canopy.

Others may want to correct me on which is safer, but this is my gut feeling even as a newbie...