CSpenceFLY 1 #176 October 3, 2009 First of all my mention of charging more instead of this sponsorship thing is just a hypothetical. Second,we have no idea when this became a policy. We only know when it was posted here. Third, if we don't stop busting everyones balls that try to do things within our sport we are going to run out of people to bid on things like nationals, Or, we will end up with only companies like Red bull willing to step up to the plate. If you think it's bad now just wait till that happens. I could probably put together a venue to do something like this but I can't afford to loose money to do it.After a thread like this I wouldn't dream of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #177 October 3, 2009 >Third, if we don't stop busting everyones balls that try to do things within >our sport we are going to run out of people to bid on things like nationals . . . Needless to say, neither side is having "their balls busted." Colorful and inflammatory language aside, the decision here was whether to favor the DZ or the competitors for a very minor slice of the Nationals pie. Since USPA has some influence over the decision, and since such decisions are often made by the board, we can decide whether or not we want this to continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #178 October 3, 2009 As I respect your opinion, I would like to hear you comment on when the time comes when a company like Red Bull takes over nationals. How do you think that will go. I'm really surprised that has not happened yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #179 October 3, 2009 If Red Bull opens a dropzone and wins the bid to host nationals, great! It's still the USPA national championships, no matter who hosts it. If the MegaDZs stop bidding for nationals, there won't be any more nationals. USPA would probably have to split it up into a bunch of separate events so smaller DZs could host. You could easily move Style and Accuracy to a tiny cessna DZ right now. Swooping is already separated. But ummm, is that looking likely? Seems like the same DZs tend to pass nationals back and forth, with some "new" DZs coming along and improving their facilities so they can join in the fun. What makes you think this is going away? And what makes you think they're losing money on this? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #180 October 3, 2009 QuoteAs I respect your opinion, I would like to hear you comment on when the time comes when a company like Red Bull takes over nationals. How do you think that will go. I'm really surprised that has not happened yet. Why do you think there will come a time when RedBull "takes over the nationals"? RedBull can have their own SkyGames ExtrordinAir any time they like. Nothing is stopping them from doing that right now. They can even schedule it to conflict with the USPA Nationals if they like. But we are talking about the National competition of the official club that regulates skydiving in the USA. This is how we choose our nations best, so they may be on the national team that goes to international competitions. If you talk to the BOD, I think you will find that they are interested in the membership's ideas of how the competition should be run, and what limits might be set by the club regarding how the hosts can conduct themselves. I for one don't want our Nationals becoming so overwhelmingly commercial that we have a dz and their sponsors unilaterally making rules that are going to even inconvenience the participants, much less have any impact on the competitors' ability to get sponsorship. It really isn't about how big or small the rule is. It is not their place to mess with things like this "partner protection" thing. Now that the issue has come up, I think the USPA will make it clearer in the future that this is our competition, not the host's boogie. If a DZ and a sponsor(s) get together to have a boogie, they are free to make any rules they desire. But if they want to host the nationals, they have to listen to and abide by rules that come from USPA. They should not be free to make any old rules they want. USPA is our club. We have a right and an obligation to tell our club what we like or do not like about how the Nationals are being run. And, believe it or not, our club has an obligation to listen. We blew it this time by leaving the door open for this sort of thing. We should be free to close that door if it is the wish of the membership. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bclark 0 #181 October 3, 2009 SHUT UP AND JUMP! 131 acres, 5 Otters, 3 Caravans, paved runway, bitchin swoop pond. And a DZO who puts profits back into improvements to the DZ. PRICELESS... Skydivers will find something to bitch about no matter what. Talk about losing sight of the spirit of skydiving. Y'all should be happy that there is still someone out there willing to put forth this kind of effort for you whiners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #182 October 3, 2009 You're right. Close the door next time or step up to the plate and host the event yourself. This is a non issue that is not effecting anyone as far as we know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen 0 #183 October 3, 2009 WOW! 8 pages on dramazone.com.... You "almost" brought a tear to my eye! I will respond as soon as I can take the time to read all concerns but right now I'm working 14 hour days for the competitors. You know who you are.... Steve Boyd DZO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #184 October 3, 2009 QuoteWOW! 8 pages on dramazone.com.... You "almost" brought a tear to my eye! I will respond as soon as I can take the time to read all concerns but right now I'm working 14 hour days for the competitors. You know who you are.... Steve Boyd DZO Nice way to publicly express callous dismissal, mockery even, for people expressing their concerns about this issue (whether you agree with them or not). Nice to see the top-down source of the attitude. That, too, will be remembered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #185 October 3, 2009 If Red Bull wants to bid on Nationals, subject to USPA rules? Great! They would probably do a good job at it. If Red Bull wants to "take over" Nationals by offering an alternative event? That's great too. People can choose which one they want to compete in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4dbill 0 #186 October 4, 2009 Come on guys and ladies -- there is way too much bickering, gossiping and speculating n this thread, but that's just so typical of a skydiving community. If you are going to say something, verbalize something nice and/or useful or don't say anything at all. We should all bitch less and listen more. Steve, the DZO of Spaceland, is obviously reading this. Here's your big chance to hear directly from the horse's mouth about this topic, so instead of posting any more crap, let's just wait for him to post and give us some real answers. I am tired of reading through a whole page of garbage to extract one little tiny bit of useful information. Steve? It's all yours.. Could you please enlighten us with the real story and post some answers to the FAQ's people been asking? Thank you. 4DBill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #187 October 4, 2009 QuoteQuoteWOW! 8 pages on dramazone.com.... You "almost" brought a tear to my eye! I will respond as soon as I can take the time to read all concerns but right now I'm working 14 hour days for the competitors. You know who you are.... Steve Boyd DZO Nice way to publicly express callous dismissal, mockery even, for people expressing their concerns about this issue (whether you agree with them or not). Nice to see the top-down source of the attitude. That, too, will be remembered. I dunno...Seems to me Steve responded with the same level of attitude that a lot of posts brought to the table. I'm surprised Spaceland posted at all. Contrary to popular belief, skydivers, DZO's, and whomever else isn't required to come here and explain their actions or policies (although it's probably as good a place as any). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #188 October 4, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteWOW! 8 pages on dramazone.com.... You "almost" brought a tear to my eye! I will respond as soon as I can take the time to read all concerns but right now I'm working 14 hour days for the competitors. You know who you are.... Steve Boyd DZO Nice way to publicly express callous dismissal, mockery even, for people expressing their concerns about this issue (whether you agree with them or not). Nice to see the top-down source of the attitude. That, too, will be remembered. I dunno...Seems to me Steve responded with the same level of attitude that a lot of posts brought to the table. I'm surprised Spaceland posted at all. Contrary to popular belief, skydivers, DZO's, and whomever else isn't required to come here and explain their actions or policies (although it's probably as good a place as any). I don't dispute your point, Spot; but there are other DZOs who post on here with various degrees of regularity, and when they address a concern, even if it's about their own DZ, it's pretty rare that they publicly take a "fuck all the critics" attitude when they do. Responsibility and maturity sometimes means, regardless of one's inner feelings, publicly rising above the tone of the lowest common denominator. Considering the source, I was a bit disappointed in the tone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #189 October 4, 2009 I would be willing to bet he has his hands full getting a DZ ready for nationals. I doubt you will hear for him again till nationals is over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #190 October 4, 2009 QuoteI would be willing to bet he has his hands full getting a DZ ready for nationals. I doubt you will hear for him again till nationals is over. But but, the kangaroo court demands answers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #191 October 4, 2009 Quote Quote I would be willing to bet he has his hands full getting a DZ ready for nationals. I doubt you will hear for him again till nationals is over. But but, the kangaroo court demands answers! Mister Packer BoyOne Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #192 October 6, 2009 >If this is what Spaceland has to do to keep the sponsors that are helping to >pay for this I see no problem. Hmm. Yet you appear to have a problem with the big splash ads that have been appearing here on DZ.com. Why is it OK for Spaceland to inconvenience competitors, but not OK for an ad company to inconvenience you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #193 October 6, 2009 We have yet to actually found a competitor that is being inconvenienced. The ads however pissed almost everyone off. It my opinion, you don't have to like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #194 October 6, 2009 >We have yet to actually found a competitor that is being inconvenienced. We have yet to find a DZ.commer who is actually being inconvenienced as well. (Annoyed, sure, but no one has been denied access or been unable to use the website.) >The ads however pissed almost everyone off. As evinced here, and talking to people going to Nationals, the Spaceland policy pisses people off as well. In both cases, it is due to people just trying to make money. In both cases, the statement "if you don't like it, open your own DZ/website" applies equally well. >It my opinion, you don't have to like it. I don't like it or dislike it. I was just curious as to why you had the opposite opinion when it affected you directly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #195 October 6, 2009 QuoteWe have yet to actually found a competitor that is being inconvenienced.. It's premature to say that yet (as of 10/6/09), since the Nationals will take place on 10/12/09-10/25/09. Give the feedback - if any - a chance to come in. There's also the open issue of whether this might have a chilling effect on sponsorships in the future. That may take months, or even until the 2010 Nationals, for sufficient data to come in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #196 October 6, 2009 Two entirely different sets of circumstances. you usually pick your battles better then this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #197 October 6, 2009 QuoteCome on guys and ladies -- there is way too much bickering, gossiping and speculating n this thread, but that's just so typical of a skydiving community. If you are going to say something, verbalize something nice and/or useful or don't say anything at all. We should all bitch less and listen more. Steve, the DZO of Spaceland, is obviously reading this. Here's your big chance to hear directly from the horse's mouth about this topic, so instead of posting any more crap, let's just wait for him to post and give us some real answers. I am tired of reading through a whole page of garbage to extract one little tiny bit of useful information. Steve? It's all yours.. Could you please enlighten us with the real story and post some answers to the FAQ's people been asking? Thank you. 4DBill I asked EXACTLY for this about two pages ago. It has been asked by me not once, but twice actually, and yet when they come on they don't take the opportunity to give the answers and clear the air and answer all of the questions that have been posted on here. Balls in their court as far as I'm concerned.Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #198 October 6, 2009 >Two entirely different sets of circumstances. Indeed. One affects you personally. Since both affect me, I may have a different perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #199 October 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteWe have yet to actually found a competitor that is being inconvenienced.. It's premature to say that yet (as of 10/6/09), since the Nationals will take place on 10/12/09-10/25/09. Give the feedback - if any - a chance to come in. There's also the open issue of whether this might have a chilling effect on sponsorships in the future. That may take months, or even until the 2010 Nationals, for sufficient data to come in. Exactly. I had mentioned earlier that majority of the people will not be effected at this years nationals. Maybe there won't be anybody that will be directly effected. I agree, there really aren't a whole lot of teams that walk around handing out stickers, brochures, or anything. We also can't assume that there won't be anybody effected. That's as gross as saying yes there definitely will be people effected. The fact is the opportunity for people to be effected is there. We can't predict the future, and if anything else, its the principal of the whole thing. It's also been mentioned that there are a few people on here voicing their concerns when they have nothing to do with this years comp, but the future is exactly my point-- I am competing next year, so your damn right I am concerned about what is going on this year and if this will be the future of nationals. (though I doubt that so long as it's being held at another dz). This is OUR competition shaped by OUR concerns and voices, so right on for the people who are getting involved, and boo for the people trying to crap on that, IMO.Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #200 October 6, 2009 Do tell how the situation at nationals effects you. I don't recall reading that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
