tumbleroll 0 #1 October 19, 2009 Ok ladies and gentlemen, here is the scenario!: You are in a 4-way formation and all of a sudden notice you are at 1,500' - what would you do??? When my skydiving instructor asked me this question I said: turn-track 2-3 secs, pull reserve, and prepare to grab the rear risers to steer quickly out of any pending collision. He didn't think much of this response! He said I'd have nowhere near enough time to track away from the group. He seemed to suggest that I should instead pull (the main!) straight away and deal with any consequences. Sounds crazy too me - a sure way of getting into a nasty mess! Anyway folks, thought I'd throw it open to you guys, I'm really interested in your points of view! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tumbleroll 0 #2 October 19, 2009 and of course the scenario I described above obviously does not involve any sort of malfunction! I don't know where my head is at today.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #3 October 19, 2009 You are in a nasty mess already. I hope I would turn outfacing and pull my reserve. And hope the video guy has pulled already. Not sure this is the best answer.Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #4 October 19, 2009 turn 180 and go silver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #5 October 19, 2009 SMILE AT THE VIDEOMAN, GRAB SOMEONE ELSES PILOTCHUTE AND PULL YOUR SILVER scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tumbleroll 0 #6 October 19, 2009 Ah, thanks for the responses When you say 'pull the silver' - I assume you're referring to pulling the reserve handle? This makes sense because the reserve deploys a lot faster than the main! I hope none on these forums every finds themselves in this situation! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #7 October 19, 2009 Quote He didn't think much of this response! He said I'd have nowhere near enough time to track away from the group. He seemed to suggest that I should instead pull (the main!) straight away and deal with any consequences. Do you wear an AAD and how does that factor into your decision on which handle to pull? And why?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #8 October 19, 2009 Quote Ah, thanks for the responses When you say 'pull the silver' - I assume you're referring to pulling the reserve handle? This makes sense because the reserve deploys a lot faster than the main! I hope none on these forums every finds themselves in this situation! People jump from planes at 2000 feet all day long. its called a hop n pop. You need to listen to your instructor FULL STOP. You seriously need to listen to your instructor. if you think the advice he gave you was wrong then maybe you should be the internet instructor and teach AFF over the forums. Show some fucking respect for your instructor who is teaching you. He is making sure you live and you come here to get a second opinion.???/ Seriously, WTF!!I cant believe someone with 60 jumps gave the answer to him you gave him and then come to these forums and say that his answer does not seem right to you. I guess you are just a jumper who thinks he should listen to people here in the forums rather than the person who is trained to teach you to save your life. What dropzone do you jump at? Someone needs to tell your instructor that you are in these forums being taught by people over the internet and questioning his advice. His advice is correct. Why? Because it is what he told you to do. as simple as that. He knows the gear you are jumping, he knows you, he knows how he taught you. He knows what he was taught. Seriosuly, give up while you are ahead and still alive, I hate to think what other advice you have not listened to from your instructor and instead of taken advice from someone on this forum that you dont even know. The two people who told you to turn and pull silver. One of them has 1500 jumps over 11 years, that means this person does an average of 11 jumps a month. Obviously not an instructor. (nothing personal). The other person has 130 or 170 jumps over two years, again not an instructor... but you are willing to take that advice and say it makes more sense? That is seriously fucked up and it seriously fucked up those people giving you contradicting advice to what you have said your instructor has already given you. People, it is obvious this guy with 60 jumps has no idea what to do, from the answer he gave. He was then told by his instructor what to do and he comes to these forums to ask what you all think. it is irresponsible of you to then give contradicting advice to a new skydiver who obviously does not know what to do and obviously does not listen to their instructor. Really irresponsible. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NealFitz 0 #9 October 19, 2009 learn how to use an alti properly Dudeist Skydiver #170 You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #10 October 19, 2009 At your level that turn will take a second or two, start a track another second, track 2 seconds, stop track reach and pull another 1 or 2 seconds. You hit the ground just about the time you pull your pilot chute out. You just spent the rest of life trying to avoid a POSSIBLE canopy collision. And your AAD probably fired and save your butt sometime in here. Maybe turn and pull, maybe not turn, probably reserve if you have a modern canopy that takes 700' to open. My mains I'd probably pull. I've watched 8 way horny gorillas bust 1000'. Everybody pulled their main and lived. Same group did it twice in two weeks. If your the first one that sees it you pulling right away will give you vertical separation AND let you budies know something is wrong.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #11 October 19, 2009 QuoteI've watched 8 way horny gorillas bust 1000'. Everybody pulled their main and lived. Same group did it twice in two weeks. ???? WTF? On the face of it, grounded for the season...I hope?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #12 October 19, 2009 Nobody should be giving this guy advice over the internet. it is very clear he does not care for what his instructor says and is a danger to himself. He should not be learning from anyone on the internet. He should be doing AFF again. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean358 0 #13 October 19, 2009 QuoteNobody should be giving this guy advice over the internet. it is very clear he does not care for what his instructor says and is a danger to himself. He should not be learning from anyone on the internet. He should be doing AFF again. +1www.wci.nyc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #14 October 19, 2009 QuoteNobody should be giving this guy advice over the internet. it is very clear he does not care for what his instructor says and is a danger to himself. He should not be learning from anyone on the internet. He should be doing AFF again. I call bullshit on blindly following what an instructor says. I've seen some instrutors say some pretty stupid shit. I really don't see why you are so upset about this guy giving us something to discuss here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #15 October 19, 2009 Quote People jump from planes at 2000 feet all day long. its called a hop n pop. . Being at 1,500' at terminal is not the same as being at 1,500' after a 2000' hop n pop.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #16 October 19, 2009 IM not upset but I do believe a student should blindly follow their instructor. If it seems like I am upset, Maybe it is just that I want the O.P. to see I am serious about the importance it is to listen to his instructor. He is not giving you something to discuss here, he is trying to find out what he should do and if he should listen to his instructor or not. If you guys make him believe his instructor is wrong then from this day onwards he will always second guess his instructor and take all his advice from people in the forums. If you want to encourage that, then go right ahead. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #17 October 19, 2009 Quote People jump from planes at 2000 feet all day long. its called a hop n pop. Yeah, but those who try to do formations at that altitude under modern gear (and let's remember we're talking about a formation in this scenario) often pay the price. Solo hop & pops are a very different scenario from being in the middle of a formation at 1500 feet."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #18 October 19, 2009 My answer would have to start with a question. Where, or is there a camera guy? Having done alot of camera jumps I can tell you my ass would have been gone. I would say pull in place. Your decision as to main or reserve would have to be made taking into consideration if you have an AAD,ADD or how long it usually takes your main to open. This answer does three things. 1.It saves your life. 2.It lets your friends know they are fucked. 3. If you beat them to the pull,it gets you out of the mess. It may sound shitty but you better be worried about saving YOUR life so someone can tell the story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #19 October 19, 2009 QuoteMy answer would have to start with a question. Where, or is there a camera guy? Having done alot of camera jumps I can tell you my ass would have been gone. I would say pull in place. Your decision as to main or reserve would have to be made taking into consideration if you have an AAD,ADD or how long it usually takes your main to open. This answer does three things. 1.It saves your life. 2.It lets your friends know they are fucked. 3. If you beat them to the pull,it gets you out of the mess. It may sound shitty but you better be worried about saving YOUR life so someone can tell the story. Exactly what his instructor said. hard deck equals pull. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #20 October 19, 2009 Got a little ahead of yourself typing that deleted post before you even knew what I thought...Classic. I still don't think doing anything blindly,including following what an instructor, is a good idea. I would rather see people that understand why they are doing what they are doing. If I ask another jumper a question,I don't what the answer I get to be,"Cause my instructor told me to". That,IMO, would be more fucking stupid then discussing it with others and thinking about other scenarios Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #21 October 19, 2009 Actually, no. I deleted a post because It was a reply to a comment about the 2000 ft hop n pop comment. I didnt want the thread to turn and focus on that. Then i reliased I deleted the wrong post so i just deleted the correct post. With an end result of deleting two posts. Nothing to do with you at all spence as to why I deleted it. Believe what you will though. Thats great you think a student should come here and ask random people with random experience what they all think and then make their decision on what they get taught by the instructors that know them. if they need to learn why to do what an instructor tells them, then they should talk to their instructor and maybe get a different opinion from another instructor that knows them on the dropzone. however, I am well aware your are right and I am wrong so I will leave it at that. Nobody said he should listen to his instructor and then just do it. He should just listen to his instructor. if he has a question, then he should ask his instructor. I too think he is a idiot if he was to say 'cause my instructor told me so'. If he does not understand he should ask his instructor to explain it. I never said that he should not be educated by his instructor, but i do believe his instructor should be the one who educates him. To th O.P. Everytime you are unsure of something your instructor says, come here ask a thousand people what to do, then listen to them all argue and then make your decision on what you feel is best from all the information given to you. Spence has way more experience than I do and you are in safe hands with him. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #22 October 19, 2009 i would 1. deploy... probably my reserve, since i'm aad equipped AND my main snivels a bit...also that would alert any others, that you've busted the hard deck. 2. kick myself in the ass for getting SO low. 3. seriously question whether i'd wanna jump with any of the other 3,,, who ALSO have No excuse for blowing past 2 grand. STILL doing 4 way.... 4. i'd get an audible, set it, and then Pay attention to it... i recall a time when " base had altitude responsibility" in other words, if you started the dive as either base or pin, YOu HAD to accept the job of keying breakoff, in a SAFE and timely fashion...and then, you HAD to do it !!! Those later in the dive, would be trusting to the concept, that If the formation is still there,,, they can agress it... since the base would trigger a 'shake and break', AT the correct altitude... seldom see that procedure followed anymore....or even discussed....jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #23 October 19, 2009 You're the one who used the term "blindly follow" what the instructor says. Maybe if you said what you really ment we wouldn't disagree. I really don't think we disagree at all but what you are saying now is not what you were saying then. As for coming here for "advise", if you think we are all a bunch of fucking morons why do you come here and hangout with us? Now go edit or delete that post to. Anything else you want to argue about with me today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #24 October 19, 2009 Quote I call bullshit on blindly following what an instructor says. I've seen some instrutors say some pretty stupid shit. I really don't see why you are so upset about this guy giving us something to discuss here. I'll side more with this answer than Bigway's. I'd rather have a student who questions things. Having someone question things is not the same as them going off and doing whatever they want! Nor does it mean someone is disruptive and holds up the training process by asking a million questions. One can "listen to" an instructor, do what they say, but still ask questions to learn more. In the original post, the novice's answer isn't very good, but the instructor's (if reported accurately) isn't the best either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shermanator 4 #25 October 19, 2009 What kind of canopy do you have? how much altitude does it burn to fully inflate? if you are tracking away, are you going to then use your reserve? If I were to turn and track, I would have to us a reserve, my main just might not b inflated when I hit the ground.CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
