MJH 0 #1 May 23, 2005 I deployed my canopy yesterday from a stable body position. On deployment, my risers were crossed in an x in front of me, and I had minor line twists. The risers, however, were crossed through one another, and were impossible to separate. When I hit my hard deck, I was satisfied that I could not control my main well enough to land it. So I chopped and landed under my reserve. I packed my own main. Some at my DZ think a step-through caused the malfunction; others (including a rigger) say that it could not have been. I don't know what to think. All of which I am certain is that I did something wrong and I'd rather not repeat the error. Does anybody have any thoughts on what might have caused the malfunction? Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #2 May 23, 2005 Was it the first jump after attaching the canopy to the harness, did you unhook the 3 rings after bagging in any way? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #3 May 23, 2005 QuoteThe risers, however, were crossed through one another, and were impossible to separate I can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards. Can you elaborate? "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJH 0 #4 May 23, 2005 QuoteWas it the first jump after attaching the canopy to the harness? No. That canopy had been attached to the harness for about 80 jumps.Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #5 May 23, 2005 Sorry, I added a second part while you responded, what about the 3-ring system, did you unhook it after bagging? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #6 May 23, 2005 Did you run up the lines and separate the line groups when you packed? Did you pack it or someone else? What did you do when you flaked it? Did you not leave enough slack between the bag and risers? Did you spin the bag when you put it in the container? etc...NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #7 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe risers, however, were crossed through one another, and were impossible to separate I can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards. Can you elaborate? Alas, I can't add much to what I said. At first I though I had line twists (which I did, but which were incidental to my real problem) and spent time trying to kick out. Then I saw the risers in an X through one another in front of me, tried and failed to separate them, determined I could not land the canopy, and cut because I was at my hard deck. I didn't have as much time to study the problem as I would have liked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #8 May 23, 2005 I don't see how most of those could cause one riser pair to be routed through the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #9 May 23, 2005 QuoteI don't see how most of those could cause one riser pair to be routed through the other. Neither do I. In any event, I separated and walked through the lines, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #10 May 23, 2005 yes, but the point I was really trying to get to was whether or not he did anything different when he packed...NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #11 May 23, 2005 Again, did you unhook the 3 rings. It does sound like a sort of stepthrough BTW, imagine taking your bag and rotating it so that the bag and two line groups on the left pass between two linegroups on the right before you do your stows or put it in the container. When you open one riser will be routed between the other (and the canopy will be backwards I think but maybe not obvious with the twists). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #12 May 23, 2005 QuoteI can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards If nothing was disconnected during or after the pack job, wouldn't the only way to have the risers cross through each other mean that the canopy was upside-down?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #13 May 23, 2005 QuoteAgain, did you unhook the 3 rings. Quote No, I didn't unhook the 3 rings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #14 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteI can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards If nothing was disconnected during or after the pack job, wouldn't the only way to have the risers cross through each other mean that the canopy was upside-down? The way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #15 May 23, 2005 QuoteThe way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. I don't visualize "backwards". It seems (to me, but my spacial skills are bad) more like it would still be facing the correct direction, but inverted top to bottom.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #16 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. I don't visualize "backwards". It seems (to me, but my spacial skills are bad) more like it would still be facing the correct direction, but inverted top to bottom. Only if it opened upsidedown Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 May 23, 2005 Sounds like either line tiwsts or the container passed between a set of risers, kind of a sideways step through. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #18 May 23, 2005 Probably a simple step through. They can look weird. No sense trying to make sense of a description of what it kinda looked like. If the canopy is flying straight, slider down, it might steer and flare fairly normally, with just a little extra friction for the steering lines to work through, which of course can be dangerous.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #19 May 23, 2005 I would say the same. Or he might do some kind of somersault on opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites btucker 0 #20 May 24, 2005 bag can tumble through it's lines.. If your super curious, You can probably recreate the mal (on the ground). There is also video (somewhere on skydivingmovies.com) of a premie producing the same mal, you can feel the pilot scratching his head. Check with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). Maybe it just was shit happens. Blues Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #21 May 24, 2005 Or you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #22 May 24, 2005 Quotebag can tumble through it's lines. Hmmm. So I may not have done anything wrong after all. A thought that is both comforting and disturbing. QuoteCheck with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). My rigger is inspecting the rig this week. QuoteMaybe it just was shit happens. It may be. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #23 May 24, 2005 QuoteOr you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. I'm not 100% certain, but it is hard for me to picture myself having done that. Then again, I packed this rig five weeks before jumping it, so my memory is not very good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #24 May 24, 2005 There's other ways this could have happened to produce the equivalent effect, for example your pilot chute bridle could have been routed under a single group of lines, instead of straight off the bag, or in the chaos of deployment maybe your lines got above your pilot chute but both seem unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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dorbie 0 #5 May 23, 2005 Sorry, I added a second part while you responded, what about the 3-ring system, did you unhook it after bagging? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #6 May 23, 2005 Did you run up the lines and separate the line groups when you packed? Did you pack it or someone else? What did you do when you flaked it? Did you not leave enough slack between the bag and risers? Did you spin the bag when you put it in the container? etc...NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJH 0 #7 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe risers, however, were crossed through one another, and were impossible to separate I can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards. Can you elaborate? Alas, I can't add much to what I said. At first I though I had line twists (which I did, but which were incidental to my real problem) and spent time trying to kick out. Then I saw the risers in an X through one another in front of me, tried and failed to separate them, determined I could not land the canopy, and cut because I was at my hard deck. I didn't have as much time to study the problem as I would have liked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #8 May 23, 2005 I don't see how most of those could cause one riser pair to be routed through the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJH 0 #9 May 23, 2005 QuoteI don't see how most of those could cause one riser pair to be routed through the other. Neither do I. In any event, I separated and walked through the lines, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #10 May 23, 2005 yes, but the point I was really trying to get to was whether or not he did anything different when he packed...NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #11 May 23, 2005 Again, did you unhook the 3 rings. It does sound like a sort of stepthrough BTW, imagine taking your bag and rotating it so that the bag and two line groups on the left pass between two linegroups on the right before you do your stows or put it in the container. When you open one riser will be routed between the other (and the canopy will be backwards I think but maybe not obvious with the twists). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #12 May 23, 2005 QuoteI can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards If nothing was disconnected during or after the pack job, wouldn't the only way to have the risers cross through each other mean that the canopy was upside-down?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJH 0 #13 May 23, 2005 QuoteAgain, did you unhook the 3 rings. Quote No, I didn't unhook the 3 rings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #14 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteI can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards If nothing was disconnected during or after the pack job, wouldn't the only way to have the risers cross through each other mean that the canopy was upside-down? The way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #15 May 23, 2005 QuoteThe way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. I don't visualize "backwards". It seems (to me, but my spacial skills are bad) more like it would still be facing the correct direction, but inverted top to bottom.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #16 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. I don't visualize "backwards". It seems (to me, but my spacial skills are bad) more like it would still be facing the correct direction, but inverted top to bottom. Only if it opened upsidedown Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 May 23, 2005 Sounds like either line tiwsts or the container passed between a set of risers, kind of a sideways step through. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #18 May 23, 2005 Probably a simple step through. They can look weird. No sense trying to make sense of a description of what it kinda looked like. If the canopy is flying straight, slider down, it might steer and flare fairly normally, with just a little extra friction for the steering lines to work through, which of course can be dangerous.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #19 May 23, 2005 I would say the same. Or he might do some kind of somersault on opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites btucker 0 #20 May 24, 2005 bag can tumble through it's lines.. If your super curious, You can probably recreate the mal (on the ground). There is also video (somewhere on skydivingmovies.com) of a premie producing the same mal, you can feel the pilot scratching his head. Check with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). Maybe it just was shit happens. Blues Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #21 May 24, 2005 Or you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #22 May 24, 2005 Quotebag can tumble through it's lines. Hmmm. So I may not have done anything wrong after all. A thought that is both comforting and disturbing. QuoteCheck with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). My rigger is inspecting the rig this week. QuoteMaybe it just was shit happens. It may be. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #23 May 24, 2005 QuoteOr you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. I'm not 100% certain, but it is hard for me to picture myself having done that. Then again, I packed this rig five weeks before jumping it, so my memory is not very good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #24 May 24, 2005 There's other ways this could have happened to produce the equivalent effect, for example your pilot chute bridle could have been routed under a single group of lines, instead of straight off the bag, or in the chaos of deployment maybe your lines got above your pilot chute but both seem unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
dorbie 0 #14 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteI can't really understand that part, other than picturing your canopy flying backwards If nothing was disconnected during or after the pack job, wouldn't the only way to have the risers cross through each other mean that the canopy was upside-down? The way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #15 May 23, 2005 QuoteThe way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. I don't visualize "backwards". It seems (to me, but my spacial skills are bad) more like it would still be facing the correct direction, but inverted top to bottom.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #16 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe way I visualize it yes, it would take two side line groups and the bag rotated through the opposite side, and your canopy would be flying backwards if you kicked out the twists I think. I don't visualize "backwards". It seems (to me, but my spacial skills are bad) more like it would still be facing the correct direction, but inverted top to bottom. Only if it opened upsidedown Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 May 23, 2005 Sounds like either line tiwsts or the container passed between a set of risers, kind of a sideways step through. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #18 May 23, 2005 Probably a simple step through. They can look weird. No sense trying to make sense of a description of what it kinda looked like. If the canopy is flying straight, slider down, it might steer and flare fairly normally, with just a little extra friction for the steering lines to work through, which of course can be dangerous.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #19 May 23, 2005 I would say the same. Or he might do some kind of somersault on opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites btucker 0 #20 May 24, 2005 bag can tumble through it's lines.. If your super curious, You can probably recreate the mal (on the ground). There is also video (somewhere on skydivingmovies.com) of a premie producing the same mal, you can feel the pilot scratching his head. Check with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). Maybe it just was shit happens. Blues Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EvilLurker 2 #21 May 24, 2005 Or you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #22 May 24, 2005 Quotebag can tumble through it's lines. Hmmm. So I may not have done anything wrong after all. A thought that is both comforting and disturbing. QuoteCheck with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). My rigger is inspecting the rig this week. QuoteMaybe it just was shit happens. It may be. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MJH 0 #23 May 24, 2005 QuoteOr you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. I'm not 100% certain, but it is hard for me to picture myself having done that. Then again, I packed this rig five weeks before jumping it, so my memory is not very good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #24 May 24, 2005 There's other ways this could have happened to produce the equivalent effect, for example your pilot chute bridle could have been routed under a single group of lines, instead of straight off the bag, or in the chaos of deployment maybe your lines got above your pilot chute but both seem unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Hooknswoop 19 #17 May 23, 2005 Sounds like either line tiwsts or the container passed between a set of risers, kind of a sideways step through. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #18 May 23, 2005 Probably a simple step through. They can look weird. No sense trying to make sense of a description of what it kinda looked like. If the canopy is flying straight, slider down, it might steer and flare fairly normally, with just a little extra friction for the steering lines to work through, which of course can be dangerous.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #19 May 23, 2005 I would say the same. Or he might do some kind of somersault on opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #20 May 24, 2005 bag can tumble through it's lines.. If your super curious, You can probably recreate the mal (on the ground). There is also video (somewhere on skydivingmovies.com) of a premie producing the same mal, you can feel the pilot scratching his head. Check with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). Maybe it just was shit happens. Blues Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #21 May 24, 2005 Or you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJH 0 #22 May 24, 2005 Quotebag can tumble through it's lines. Hmmm. So I may not have done anything wrong after all. A thought that is both comforting and disturbing. QuoteCheck with a rigger perhaps you need to check the compatibility of the gear (bag too tight?), tube stows/bands, how much lines between the risers and the first stow or the pilot chute (kill line okay?). My rigger is inspecting the rig this week. QuoteMaybe it just was shit happens. It may be. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MJH 0 #23 May 24, 2005 QuoteOr you could do it while packing, sure you didn't get mixed up and twist the bag through the lines while you were putting it in the rig? That way your lines/risers would have looked fine while you were packing. Just a thought. I'm not 100% certain, but it is hard for me to picture myself having done that. Then again, I packed this rig five weeks before jumping it, so my memory is not very good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #24 May 24, 2005 There's other ways this could have happened to produce the equivalent effect, for example your pilot chute bridle could have been routed under a single group of lines, instead of straight off the bag, or in the chaos of deployment maybe your lines got above your pilot chute but both seem unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
