udder 0 #1 May 22, 2005 Im looking at buying my first rig sometime soon(god bless the student loan) and was questioning the safety of having a smaller reserve canopy. Looking at a 170 main(hornet), and the sizing of the odyssey allows for a 170 main and 160 reserve(on this particular used container). The loading will be about 1.15 under the main and 1.25 under the reserve. My dropzone is very open with farms all round so theres no really tight spots to land in. I realize it's not as forgiving as a 170 or 180 reserve but is this still a reasonable set-up?"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 May 22, 2005 *disclaimer: any advice given over the internet should be taken with a LARGE grain of salt and discussed with your instructors* Let me be the first to say.... "check with your instructors". They know how well you fly and what your capabilities are. There's plenty of threads with wingloading advice, as well as a well-written page about selecting first gear, here. One of our members has a sigline that states something like: "In the race to downsize, the tortoise always wins because the rabbit rarely finishes the race". My newb opinion: Slower (i.e., bigger canopy) is better...it gives you more time to realize what's going on and to react to it than a smaller canopy would give you. Also, plan on worst-case: Do you REALLY want your first jump on a small(er), 7 cell reserve (with flight and flare techniques that may well be radically different from your main) to be into someone's back yard, with little/no room for maneuvering? How about a braked-flight, no flare downwind landing because you're unconscious under that reserve? Which do you think will be a better landing, under a reserve loaded 1.25:1 or a reserve loaded .8:1? I'm sure there's going to be plenty of advise coming your way...good luck, and speak to your instructors!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #3 May 22, 2005 Nobody has ever looked up at their open reserve and thought, "Man, I wish this was smaller!".Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #4 May 22, 2005 wanna bet... I have a friend that, after his last reserve ride, wanted dive loops added to the reserve risers so he could get a better swoop out of it. NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #5 May 22, 2005 >and was questioning the safety of having a smaller reserve canopy. If you are at all concerned about the implications of going to a smaller reserve - don't do it. Jump a reserve you _know_ you can land without a problem in any of the outs at your DZ. For a good way to see what your reserve will land like, borrow/demo a smaller Triathalon and put a few jumps on it. (Better yet, get the actual reserve - but those are harder to get demos of.) See how comfortable you are landing it. If you can land it with no problem in most conditions (i.e. no wind, tight areas etc) then that would probably be a good size for your reserve. >and the sizing of the odyssey allows for a 170 main and 160 >reserve(on this particular used container). Get a Tri-160 and see how you feel landing it. A PD/Tempo/Smart reserve will land in a similar manner. Edited to add - I hope it goes without saying that you should NOT be jumping a 1.25 to 1 loaded canopy for either main _or_ reserve until you have sufficient experience on canopies loaded at around 1.15 to 1. In other words, don't try to buy something like this tomorrow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #6 May 22, 2005 Peder, I'm a newbie, and so far, I have had my reserve out twice. I have a Sabre 170 and PDR 176 at about the same WL on the main. I like the fact I have a bigger reserve then main for all the reasons listed above(other then the dive loops). I want to choose when I downsize, not when forced to, low to the ground, with no previous experience on the canopy. You might be jumping at a DZ with a large landing area with great outs, but when you start traveling, that might not be the case. There are lots of used containers out there that fit our size which would hold a larger reserve. Before I bought my used rig, I asked my rigger, S&TA, and several instructors that jumped with me to make sure it was appropriate for my skill level. I even waited for a while after I got it to gain jump experience before I jumped it. No hurry. Ask those that know your skills for advice. Mine is worth what you paid for it. Be safe, Monkeyboy50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #7 May 22, 2005 Quotewanna bet... I have a friend that, after his last reserve ride, wanted dive loops added to the reserve risers so he could get a better swoop out of it. About half of the fatalities these days are under fully-inflated, perfectly functioning canopies. Gee, I wonder why... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #8 May 22, 2005 QuoteMy dropzone is very open with farms all round so theres no really tight spots to land in That's relevant only assuming that a reserve ride would happen at your home dz. As you jump more and more, you are likely to start jumping at different dropzones (boogies, travels, etc...). "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 May 23, 2005 Quotewanna bet... I have a friend that, after his last reserve ride, wanted dive loops added to the reserve risers so he could get a better swoop out of it. You have a friend that is about as smart as a bag of rocks. We should start a poll on this one, for sure. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #10 May 23, 2005 I'm sure he was at least half-joking... on a side note, would a master rigger need to perform that mod, and would it affect the TSO of the harness/container? NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #11 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotewanna bet... I have a friend that, after his last reserve ride, wanted dive loops added to the reserve risers so he could get a better swoop out of it. You have a friend that is about as smart as a bag of rocks. We should start a poll on this one, for sure. Sparky Don't be so quick to judge, Sparky. Just because you don't front riser your canopy, doesn't mean there aren't hundreds or thousands of people that do so safely. And yes, I am anonymous, so ignore my profile/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 May 23, 2005 QuoteDon't be so quick to judge, Sparky. Just because you don't front riser your canopy, doesn't mean there aren't hundreds or thousands of people that do so safely. And yes, I am anonymous, so ignore my profile/ How many thousands of people front riser their reserve? I was not judging, just giving my opinion. And how would you know if I front riser my canopy or not. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #13 May 23, 2005 QuoteHow many thousands of people front riser their reserve? I was referring to the number of people who safely front riser a canopy. BTW, a lot of people with small reserves DO high performance landings when they have a good landing area. Ask some of the local swoopers about that (Jim Slaton, Clint Clawson, JC) Quote I was not judging, just giving my opinion.QuoteYou have a friend that is about as smart as a bag of rocks Sounds like judging to me. You don't know this friend, going off of locations listed in profiles. Quote And how would you know if I front riser my canopy or not. If you did, you wouldn't be so quick to judge. Also, if you were into high performance landings, with your jump numbers, you probably wouldn't jump a Sharpchuter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #14 May 23, 2005 QuoteI'm sure he was at least half-joking... on a side note, would a master rigger need to perform that mod, and would it affect the TSO of the harness/container? Yes, it would take a Master rigger to do it. As far as affectiing the TSO. With the FAA, its any bodies guess. From FAA Part 65 § 65.125 Certificates: Privileges. (b) A certificated master parachute rigger may— (1) Pack, maintain, or alter any type of parachute for which he is rated; § 65.129 Performance standards. No certificated parachute rigger may— ((d) Alter a parachute in a manner that is not specifically authorized by the Administrator or the manufacturer; (e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from procedures approved by the Administrator or the manufacturer of the parachute; I do not know any Master riggers that would do it. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #15 May 23, 2005 Quote(Jim Slaton, Clint Clawson, JC) OK, thats 3 of the top canopy pilots in the world. Who are the other "thousands" of other people that front riser their reserves? QuoteIf you did, you wouldn't be so quick to judge. Also, if you were into high performance landings, with your jump numbers, you probably wouldn't jump a Sharpchuter. If you define using front risers as HP landings then you are judging and are wrong. I have used front and rear risers on different canopies starting with a small Piglet and a PC. But I do not do it on my reserve. Just like your profile, how do you know mine is correct? I could be a 65 year old lady from Iowa just cruising the net. To quote something I recently read "Don't be so quick to judge". SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #16 May 23, 2005 QuoteI could be a 65 year old lady from Iowa just cruising the net. There's 2 of us? Small world, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #17 May 23, 2005 Quotewanna bet... I have a friend that, after his last reserve ride, wanted dive loops added to the reserve risers so he could get a better swoop out of it. Anyone who is jumping his reserve so often that he feels it needs dive-loops, needs to instead focus on how he is packing his main."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #18 May 23, 2005 QuoteI could be a 65 year old lady from Iowa just cruising the net. I could vouch Sparky, for at least a part of that statement! coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #19 May 23, 2005 QuoteQuoteI could be a 65 year old lady from Iowa just cruising the net. I could vouch Sparky, for at least a part of that statement! And I don't want to know what part. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #20 May 24, 2005 QuoteQuote(Jim Slaton, Clint Clawson, JC) QuoteOK, thats 3 of the top canopy pilots in the world That is also 3 pilots at your home DZ. If you look around, you will find others. QuoteIf you define using front risers as HP landings then you are judging and are wrong. I have used front and rear risers on different canopies starting with a small Piglet and a PC. But I do not do it on my reserve. Ignoring everything else, why not do it on your reserve as well? After all, once it is open, it really is just another canopy. QuoteJust like your profile, how do you know mine is correct? I could be a 65 year old lady from Iowa just cruising the net. To quote something I recently read "Don't be so quick to judge". Sparky Well, I do exist, you just don't know who I am. And since I exist, the possibility of us having met exists. I realize some people jus tlike to argue, and as a wise person once said, arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded (No offense intended to retarded people) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #21 May 24, 2005 QuoteThat is also 3 pilots at your home DZ. If you look around, you will find others. No, I do not think I will look around for others, I am not the one claiming millions use front risers on reserves. QuoteIgnoring everything else, why not do it on your reserve as well? After all, once it is open, it really is just another canopy. I have never thought of my reserve as "just another canopy" and never will. QuoteWell, I do exist, you just don't know who I am. And since I exist, the possibility of us having met exists. I have no doubt you do exist, and the way you are playing footsy I have no doubt we have meet. But you seem to be more at ease standing in the dark and taking shoots. QuoteI realize some people just like to argue, Your own actions appear to validate this point. This is fast becoming subject drift. If you wish to continue with this discussion please feel fee to PM me. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,006 #22 May 24, 2005 >why not do it on your reserve as well? Cause a collapse at 1000 feet, and resulting spin, could kill you. >After all, once it is open, it really is just another canopy. You can cut away a normal canopy if there's a problem. If your reserve gets a lineover, or spins up because you're loading it at 2:1, you must land it in whatever condition it's in. That makes it a bit different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
