in-op airspeed indicator

[tsalnukt 1]

Would you get in a cessna with an in-op airspeed indicator? why or why not?

[GaryRay 0]

probably not, as you can probably just "feel it out" at the same time you cannot get exacts. you need to know where your stall points are and overstress points are, air-speed indicators help with that, the military wont fly with an in-op indicator like that.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[bfilarsky 0]

It isn't legal, that's for sure. I suppose it depends on how much I trusted the pilot, and how much reason I had to get in said airplane.

[topdocker 0]

Last plane out of Saigon- I'd get on.

Just another fun load- I'll wait, bound to be another plane

Most of us probably wouldn't notice getting in any plane, just pile in and hold on. Knowing ahead of time would be the tricky part.

How fun would it be to hear from the pilot on the climb to altitude, "Ah, that damn airspeed indicator finally quit on me. I'll just open the window and figure it out!"

top

Jump more, post less!

[Derekbox 0]

I use Naylors Instruments for the repair of most indicators including all pitot static instruments. They do good work, they do it quickly and they are very reasonably priced. They may have an outright exchange for the airspeed indicator (just beware that the airspeed markings need to be matched). Id pass the info along to the operators.
Derek (Avionics tech)
http://www.naylorsinstrument.com/

[pilotdave 0]

Depends on the pilot. All pilots do practice landing and taking off without an airspeed indicator during flight training. It's not a big deal. But for jumping, I'd definitely want a very experienced pilot. I have done it when a DZ had a clogged pitot tube in the middle of the day. One pilot wouldn't fly, but another much more experienced (in that particular plane) pilot would.

When the pilot has flown the same jumprun thousands of times in the same plane, he'll be able to hear and feel if he's too fast or too slow.

But I wouldn't want to be getting on a larger or more complex plane without an airspeed indicator.

Dave

[packerboy 3]

And this is the guy you probably want to listen to regarding this matter.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[diverdriver 5]

Is it really that hard to look this stuff up pilots? Something breaks look it up to see if it's required. Yah, airspeed indicator is REQUIRED!

Quote

Sec. 91.205

Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.

(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of this section, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains the
instruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs (or FAA-approved equivalents) for that type of operation, and those instruments and items of equipment are in operable condition.
(b) Visual-flight rules (day). For VFR flight during the day, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Airspeed indicator.
(2) Altimeter.
(3) Magnetic direction indicator.
(4) Tachometer for each engine.
(5) Oil pressure gauge for each engine using pressure system.
(6) Temperature gauge for each liquid-cooled engine.
(7) Oil temperature gauge for each air-cooled engine.
(8) Manifold pressure gauge for each altitude engine.
(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.
(10) Landing gear position indicator, if the aircraft has a retractable landing gear.
(11) For small civil airplanes certificated after March 11, 1996, in accordance with part 23 of this chapter, an approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operation of the aircraft may continue to a
location where repairs or replacement can be made.
(12) If the aircraft is operated for hire over water and beyond power-off gliding distance from shore, approved flotation gear readily available to each occupant and, unless the aircraft is operating under part 121 of this subchapter, at least one pyrotechnic signaling device. As used in this section, "shore" means that area of the land adjacent to the water which is above the high water mark and excludes land areas which are intermittently under water.
(13) An approved safety belt with an approved metal-to-metal latching device for each occupant 2 years of age or older.
(14) For small civil airplanes manufactured after July 18, 1978, an approved shoulder harness for each front seat. The shoulder harness must be designed to protect the occupant from serious head injury when the occupant experiences the ultimate inertia forces specified in Sec. 23.561(b)(2) of this chapter. Each shoulder harness installed at a flight crewmember station
must permit the crewmember, when seated and with the safety belt and shoulder harness fastened, to perform all functions necessary for flight operations. For purposes of this paragraph--
(i) The date of manufacture of an airplane is the date the inspection acceptance records reflect that the airplane is complete and meets the FAA-approved type design data; and
(ii) A front seat is a seat located at a flight crewmember station or any seat located alongside such a seat.
(15) An emergency locator transmitter, if required by Sec. 91.207.
(16) For normal, utility, and acrobatic category airplanes with a seating configuration, excluding pilot seats, of 9 or less, manufactured after December 12, 1986, a shoulder harness for--
(i) Each front seat that meets the requirements of Sec. 23.785 (g) and (h) of this chapter in effect on December 12, 1985;
(ii) Each additional seat that meets the requirements of Sec. 23.785(g) of this chapter in effect on December 12, 1985.
(17) For rotorcraft manufactured after September 16, 1992, a shoulder harness for each seat that meets the requirements of Sec. 27.2 or Sec. 29.2 of this chapter in effect on September 16, 1991.
(c) Visual flight rules (night). For VFR flight at night, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.
(2) Approved position lights.
(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the
anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any light of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may be
continued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made.
(4) If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing light.
(5) An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical and radio equipment.
(6) One spare set of fuses, or three spare fuses of each kind required, that are accessible to the pilot in flight.
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
[ (2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.]
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:
(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in Sec. 121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with Sec. 29.1303(g) of this chapter.
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).
[ (e) Flight at and above 24,000 feet MSL (FL 240). If VOR navigation equipment is required under paragraph (d)(2) of this section, no person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft within the 50 states and the District of Columbia at or above FL 240 unless that aircraft is equipped with approved DME or a suitable RNAV system. When the DME or RNAV system required by this paragraph fails at and above FL 240, the pilot in command of the aircraft must notify ATC immediately, and then may continue operations at and above FL 240 to the next airport of intended landing where repairs or replacement of the equipment can be made.]
(f) Category II operations. The requirements for Category II operations are the instruments and equipment specified in--
(1) Paragraph (d) of this section; and
(2) Appendix A to this part.
(g) Category III operations. The instruments and equipment required for Category III operations are specified in paragraph (d) of this section.
(h) Exclusions. Paragraphs (f) and (g) of this section do not apply to operations conducted by a holder of a certificate issued under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter.


Amdt. 91-296, Eff. 8/6/07

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[hackish 8]

Another way to look at things - would you go for a skydive with a broken altimeter? If you've got thousands of jumps you probably have a good eye for how high you are. That's good enough isn't it?

-Michael

[skydiver30960 0]

Dude, if the airspeed indicator doesn't work, what else doesn't, or won't when it's needed?

Elvisio "sitting this one out" Rodriguez

[DBCOOPER 5]

Are we talking common sense or regs here? I wouldn't get on an airplane with the a/s indicator inop. But if the "magnetic direction indicator" took a leak I wouldn't hesitate to get on either as the pilot or as a jumper.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[riggerrob 643]

Air regulations are written in blood.
Ignore them at your peril.

Most flying accidents are found at the end of a chain of mistakes. Stop any single mistake and you will probably prevent the accident.

[Tolgak 0]

Would I fly it? No, it's illegal unless you get special permission, which is usually only to get it to an airport with the service to fix it.

Could I fly it? Yes, without many difficulties. It's not much more dangerous, but it will affect your flight. If I'm just screwing around in a training area, it's not very important. The difficulty is in landing. Even then, you can use RPM settings to get a good approach speed. I don't look at the airspeed indicator between the end of approach and beginning of flare.

Would I jump it? No, I don't support illegal activities.

Could I jump it (were it legal)? Sure, if the pilot has enough experience to connect his airspeed with his RPM at jump run, it wont be any more dangerous than any other jump with that pilot.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[vpjr 18]

I heard Howard say that when he was on the first load of the Wright Flyer, Orvil only had a string tied to a wire for an airspeed indicator.

[Gary73 10]

Maybe, but keep in mind that they wrecked that plane before it even had three minutes of flight time on it!

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[Tuna-Salad 0]

Quote

Would you get in a cessna with an in-op airspeed indicator? why or why not?

Hell no, esp if it was carrying a load. Not very many people are able to judge speed very well and in all of my flight training I never once was expected to land without an airspeed indicator. (per previous post). Some systems are redundant, turn coordinator with horizon for stability but absolutely no backup for airspeed indicator.. in MOST cessnas anyway.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Would you get in a cessna with an in-op airspeed indicator? why or why not?

No. It's a violation of FAR part 91.205 (b)(1) to operate it in that condition.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Would you get in a cessna with an in-op airspeed indicator? why or why not?

Yes, I'd get in as long as I could get out again before anyone tried to fly it in that condition.

I've been in lots of unairworthy planes, in aviation museums.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[flyboy62000 0]

I would not fly an aircraft with an inoperative airspeed indicator. It is a required instrument for flight. I have had one go out (blocked pitot tube) in flight in on a winch launch in a glider. It was due to a bug getting rammed into the pitot tube on takeoff. I took a piece of wire, cleared the blockage and then made the flight. I would not intentionally take off in an aircraft with a known inoperative ASI.

Blue Skies,
Adam
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[tombuch 0]

Not a chance. It is required for flight by regulation and common sense.

I have flown with an inop airspeed indicator that blocked up in flight, and I'm comfortable that I can land an aircraft without a working ASI, but I'd never take off in that condition.

Not only is an ASI needed to land, but it is also necessary to confirm airspeeds for jumprun, and to prevent pushing the aircraft to a stall, especially while in a steep bank. Sure, a good jump pilot knows how to configure for jumprun and landing, and can do so with the ASI covered, but why add that extra risk?

I'd have no respect for a pilot who took off without a working ASI, nor for a DZ that sent jumpers up in a defective aircraft.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[wayneflorida 0]

Quote

Not a chance. It is required for flight by regulation and common sense.

I have flown with an inop airspeed indicator that blocked up in flight, and I'm comfortable that I can land an aircraft without a working ASI, but I'd never take off in that condition.

Not only is an ASI needed to land, but it is also necessary to confirm airspeeds for jumprun, and to prevent pushing the aircraft to a stall, especially while in a steep bank. Sure, a good jump pilot knows how to configure for jumprun and landing, and can do so with the ASI covered, but why add that extra risk?

I'd have no respect for a pilot who took off without a working ASI, nor for a DZ that sent jumpers up in a defective aircraft.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DITTO

Saved me a lot of typing.

[mxaexm 0]

Quote

I heard Howard say that when he was on the first load of the Wright Flyer, Orvil only had a string tied to a wire for an airspeed indicator.

Orvil had a string to see if he was coordinated not to see how fast he was going....

Turn coordinator (the inclonometer, small ball inside the tube, replaced that string...) Gliders are still using strings.....

[Distabled 0]

Nope, the plane should be grounded as per the regs.

Airspeed is a critical component when configuring the plane for various phases of flight. You can't just 'feel' airspeed. Sure certain power settings and angles of climb/descent will result in a certain speed, but stalling a plane during exit is quite common and your just tempting fate.

Plain stupid, illegal and sets a very bad example.

Also, try convincing your insurance company that they should cover you after an incident, GOOD LUCK!

Any pilot that does this should hang up their headset in my opinion. They don't really understand risk management at all.

Get busy living or get busy dying!