should TIME IN SPORT also become a requirement instead of jumpnumbers alone..

[davelepka 4]

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In my post I was more concern about people who really have no business to interfere with other people jumps,

That's what my post was about. It's everyone's job to watch out for everyone else. I specifically mentioned bringing your concerns to a qualified staff memeber, and not directly to the jumper in question. This way, the issue is filtered through two jumpers to determine if there is indeed an issue, and if there is, the person now aware of it if has the 'teeth' to do soemthing about it.

You want an example? How about this - earlier this season I saw 'new to me' jumper at the DZ. He was an older guy, and didn't seem to act like I thought a newer jumper should. I didn't mention this to the jumper, but to one of the other staff members, just to see what he thought. It turns out the that guy has been jumping for 30+ years, and had just moved back the area thsi year. Problem solved. The jumper in question never knew there was a concern.

Then there's this example - walking to the plane a few weeks ago, I notice that I can see a bit of bridle on another jumpers rig, but it's in a spot where I'm not used to seeing bridle (above the pin). I mentioned this to the jumper, got permission to open his pin cover flap, and found he was using the wrong flap order and bridle routing to close his rig. This was fixed before the jump, and now he knows the proper way. This was discovered with a quick visual scan of the rig, no touching required, and all of the other rigs I scanned that day that looked OK, the owners never knew that I gave then the once-over.

Somehow you have missed the fact that all of these people around you on the DZ can have an effect on your safety. In and around the aircraft, and of course in the air. Just putting on blinders and saying there's nothing you can do about it is a cop out. Everyone on every DZ needs to be keeping an eye out for the safety of the group, and the individuals.

[billvon 3,009]

>For example if someone you don't know is about to board the plane
>without a helmet. Would you pull him of the plane?

Would depend on the person. If it was a pretty new jumper, and it was his first jump at this DZ and he wanted to jump with no helmet for the first time - probably yes. If he was on a low timer load I was organizing, probably yes. If I asked him and he said he was doing a H+P and had 800 jumps probably not.

[Granimal 0]

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Once upon a time when USPA had the Jumpmaster/Instructor rating system you had to have had your JM for one year prior to getting your I rating.

Now there is no time requirement between getting a Coach rating and then and Instructor rating. I think there is value in having time in the sport along with jump numbers.

The once AFF JM rating and the current Coach rating are very different things. AFFJM could make harness hold skydives with students on their very first jump.

There has never been any time in sport requirements for getting an AFF rating. In fact, jump number requirements are only implied by USPA license requirements and obtaining 6 hours in freefall.

Why should someone be required to earn a Coach rating and hold it for a year before getting an AFF rating now?

[riggerrob 643]

" ... Why should someone be required to earn a Coach rating and hold it for a year before getting an AFF rating now?

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Everyone on every DZ needs to be keeping an eye out for the safety of the group, and the individuals.

At our DZ, it is expected that all experienced jumpers keep their eyes open and look around for problems. I've caught a few things over the years.

[legalize1966 0]

YES and a time in rating requirement at each leval. Look at the low quality of our current AAF-Is who are doing the Coach and AFF course in one week.

Makes you wonder what the I/E's are skipping over doesn't it?

[rhys 0]

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I voted skill level.

There should always be prerequesates of skill level and understanding, but time alone casts no real shadow of what has been learned by someone.

and who would evaluate the SKILLZ ?
the DZO (or other "responsible" person) or the jumper himself ?
you can see where I'm going....

Not really, there are people with 50 jumps in 13 years that think they are gods gift to skydiving, and there are people that smash out jumps and gain valuable experience in a short period of time.

No amount of bullshitting around the bonfire being fed crap from 100 jump wonders will give you experience. jumping will give you experience.

Even some guys with many thousands of jumps are complacent and forget how difficult or strange something can be to a newer jumper, and give bade advice.

we have DZSO's (S&TA's) Coaches, instructors, I/e's... They should be the judge as always!

The best idea is to have prerequesates of skills, like starcrest etc. but for each type of dicipline. Once someone has qualified to try, and complete the skill they can move on.

There are people with over a decade in the sport that don't have a clue, and there are people with a year or two that have 1000 jumps, a professional attitude and more right to be doing things than someone that has been lingering around for a decade, post whoring on dz.com and not jumping.

It's not that difficult to see when sombody is able to do something or not in skydiving,

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 3,009]

>No amount of bullshitting around the bonfire being fed crap from 100
>jump wonders will give you experience. jumping will give you experience.

And no amount of jumping will give you the wisdom you can gleam from talking to Bryan Burke for a few hours over a bottle of whiskey.

One of the things that's important to remember about this sport is that you can't learn everything from experience. Having a double mal is a bad way to learn about rigging mistakes, for example. Thus we would do well to take the time to learn about the sport outside of jumping as well as through jumping. The wisest skydivers pursue both avenues.

[airtwardo 7]

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>No amount of bullshitting around the bonfire being fed crap from 100
>jump wonders will give you experience. jumping will give you experience.

And no amount of jumping will give you the wisdom you can gleam from talking to Bryan Burke for a few hours over a bottle of whiskey.

One of the things that's important to remember about this sport is that you can't learn everything from experience. Having a double mal is a bad way to learn about rigging mistakes, for example. Thus we would do well to take the time to learn about the sport outside of jumping as well as through jumping. The wisest skydivers pursue both avenues.

And T H A T is the difference ladies & germs...

There is knowledge & experience and then there is wisdom.

If ya don't realise or recognise the importance of having wisdom, it might very well be because ya haven't been around long enough, or around the right people to gain any.


Often time~
Learning from your own experience costs you in pain, learning from the experience of others costs you in time...for me anyway, the choice is a simple one.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[oozzee 0]

currency more so than time,,i think

[jumpwally 0]

Both of those canidates are green, wet behind the ears and are jerking off to the idea of a tiny canopy...they are not focused or paying attention,,,now take someone lucky enough to get about 1000 jumps in a year,,both thru financial and motivational means,,you may have a person thats paying attention , soaking it all in and a head on a swivel,,mabe just maybe,,,but in the end its all fluff cuz a year is only a year. Time is everything........

smile, be nice, enjoy life
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