AndrewKarnowski 0 #1 September 14, 2009 Just out of curiosity from a disagreement that came up this weekend. What is the USPA's position on signatures in a logbook. What is the general consensus outside of the USPA? Is it legit to sign with: USPA #, USPA License Numbers, BASE #, Driver's License Number, Pilot Cert #, Rigger #? Is there any reason not to sign with any of the above? SIM 3-1-C says: Quote 2. Jumps for license and rating qualifications must be signed by another licensed skydiver, a pilot, or a USPA National or FAI Judge who witnessed the jump. 3. Jumps to meet skill requirements must be signed by a USPA Instructor, Instructor Examiner, Safety & Training Advisor, or a member of the USPA Board of Directors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lpdwntnd 0 #2 September 14, 2009 I have to say that is pretty easy to read. The first one talking any jump with an A license or higher can be signed by anyone who also holds a USPA rating, pilot or rigger(don't know any riggers who don't skydive as well.) The second being to advance in license or rating has to be signed off by someone who has the authority to do so, such as an instructor signing off on an A card, board member. I'm also very new and just responding with how I read it as well as what I have been told.Stop looking at me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewKarnowski 0 #3 September 14, 2009 The one I'm specifically arguing is signing with my BASE #. I was told not to because we're skydiving not base jumping. But it's still a verifiable number that identifies me as a person Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lpdwntnd 0 #4 September 14, 2009 I'm not positive on this but I don't think a BASE number is recognized by the USPA.Stop looking at me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #5 September 14, 2009 Quote The one I'm specifically arguing is signing with my BASE #. I was told not to because we're skydiving not base jumping. But it's still a verifiable number that identifies me as a person No one actually at the USPA is ever going to look at your logbook unless you happen to be jumping with them. But, if you're trying to prove your credentials as a skydiver, your BASE number doesn't do that. That said, I have jumps signed with Muff numbers, BASE numbers, license numbers, membership numbers, random gibberish, and unsigned and I've still managed to manifest at a bunch of DZs that looked at my logbook and get licenses and a rating. YMMV if you're trying to get someone who doesn't already know/trust you to approve your application forms."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #6 September 14, 2009 I don't think the SIM specifies what number you use when you sign, or even that you necessarily need to sign with anything but your name - just that IF you sign, you must possess the required rating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewKarnowski 0 #7 September 14, 2009 QuoteI don't think the SIM specifies what number you use when you sign, or even that you necessarily need to sign with anything but your name - just that IF you sign, you must possess the required rating. That's the point I'm trying to argue, any reasons you can think of not to sign with other numbers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #8 September 14, 2009 QuoteI don't think the SIM specifies what number you use when you sign, or even that you necessarily need to sign with anything but your name - just that IF you sign, you must possess the required rating.BINGO. However when I am asked to sign a logbook, I make sure to include my D license # behind at least one of my signatures, just in case it's ever scrutinized. That way, if any USPA official ever wants to verify, they can do so more easily. Not required per qoute from SIM, but a nice courtesy anyway. For additional signatures in the same logbook, I may use any other title I hold, whether it's a USPA-issued # or not. BTW, I always follow my signature w/ "I-(current year)" if a skill-verification is needed for a license or rating, as for an accuracy landing, etc. The USPA has requested this practice from instructional rating holders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #9 September 14, 2009 Quote Quote I don't think the SIM specifies what number you use when you sign, or even that you necessarily need to sign with anything but your name - just that IF you sign, you must possess the required rating. That's the point I'm trying to argue, any reasons you can think of not to sign with other numbers? Sign with whatever you like; have some fun and use an X and witness. The only thing is if somebody gets picky you are going to have to be able to name the (qualified) person that signed it. The numbers are just for show. You could really push the envelope in making that point and sign with your VISA number. That'll show them how irreverent you can be." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamx 0 #10 September 18, 2009 It's funny how many people think a signature has to be your name written in cursive. Legal definition: "A mark or sign made by an individual on an instrument or document to signify knowledge, approval, acceptance, or obligation. The term signature is generally understood to mean the signing of a written document with one's own hand. However, it is not critical that a signature actually be written by hand for it to be legally valid. It may, for example, be typewritten, engraved, or stamped. The purpose of a signature is to authenticate a writing, or provide notice of its source, and to bind the individual signing the writing by the provisions contained in the document. Because a signature can obligate a party to terms of a contract or verify that the person intended to make a last will and testament, the law has developed rules that govern what constitutes a legally valid signature. The Internet and other forms of telecommunication have created the need to transact legally binding agreements electronically. Almost all states have passed laws that recognize the validity of "digital signatures." We had to look that up when the bank didn't want to accept my brothers signature (a star with a little drawing) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stuntbabex 0 #11 September 18, 2009 Do the dicks someone drew in my logbook count as signatures? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #12 September 18, 2009 QuoteDo the dicks someone drew in my logbook count as signatures? If they were ink-prints of the original (think, "fingerprint"), I'd say yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 September 18, 2009 QuoteWe had to look that up when the bank didn't want to accept my brothers signature (a star with a little drawing) Out of curiosity, why did he have that type of signature? Was he a child, or have literacy issues, or English-language issues, or a disability? - Or just a personal preference? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 September 18, 2009 QuoteDo the dicks someone drew in my logbook count as signatures? I don't know. But it certainly shows someone with no class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #15 September 18, 2009 Quote Quote We had to look that up when the bank didn't want to accept my brothers signature (a star with a little drawing) Out of curiosity, why did he have that type of signature? Was he a child, or have literacy issues, or English-language issues, or a disability? - Or just a personal preference? Or perhaps an artist, like an ex of mine whose little drawing when described out loud sounded like his name Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #16 September 18, 2009 QuoteDo the dicks someone drew in my logbook count as signatures? If the dicks have license numbers they are probably acceptable to the USPA; I've known some dicks that belonged... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamx 0 #17 September 18, 2009 QuoteQuoteWe had to look that up when the bank didn't want to accept my brothers signature (a star with a little drawing) Out of curiosity, why did he have that type of signature? Was he a child, or have literacy issues, or English-language issues, or a disability? - Or just a personal preference? Personal preference. My signature is a nick name, not first-last. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #18 September 18, 2009 QuoteMy signature is a nick name, not first-last. A signature should be something verifiable. If you put your license number after your nickname, that's not verifiable, because if someone looks up the license number, it would appear to be someone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamx 0 #19 September 18, 2009 Then USPA could check my signature on file (i'm sure they file paperwork somewhere) or contact to verify, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
