Radioshack 0 #1 August 3, 2007 I have been flying a Sabre2 190 for about 4 months now, and am looking to get a PD 170... I was wondering what can I expect from this canopy? Any help/comments would be great! Thanks very much! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy_Copland 0 #2 August 3, 2007 Demo it first and make your own conclusions 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #3 August 3, 2007 The Sabre is a much nicer canopy then the PD 170. The flare is totally different then the Sabre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hukturn 0 #4 August 4, 2007 Not if he is trying to sink it in for accuracy. Demo it and see what you think. Talk to someone before you jump it. F-111 performs differently that ZP. Just like 7 cells perform different from 9. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phastasphuk 0 #5 August 4, 2007 Wear boots, practice your PLF to perfection and you are good to go. chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #6 August 4, 2007 It'll be easier to pack, but I don't think you'll like it as much. Try it before you buy it.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #7 August 4, 2007 The Sabre is a much nicer canopy then the PD 170. The flare is totally different then the Sabre. I am confused by this statement. PD makes the sabre??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #8 August 4, 2007 QuoteI have been flying a Sabre2 190 for about 4 months now, and am looking to get a PD 170... I was wondering what can I expect from this canopy? Any help/comments would be great! Square foot for square foot, an F-111 canopy will land harder than a ZP. That's because the porous fabric makes a less efficient wing, all other things being equal. Why are you making this giant leap backwards? What will your new wing loading be? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #9 August 4, 2007 The PD 170 is an older PD design then the Sabre Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #10 August 4, 2007 Hi - Instead of going into an X is better than Y without knowing anything about you. Can I ask a couple of questions? Why are you making the change? What do you want out of a canopy? What sort of flying do you want to do? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Radioshack 0 #11 August 4, 2007 Hey thanks for all the responses! As for the questions... I am making the change because the sabre2 that I am flying right now I am renting from square2 in eloy. And I am looking to buy myself a canopy that I can call my own. What I really want out of my canopy is: I really like to pull a little higher and have fun with the canopy (turn hard, dive etc)... I am used to landing every jump on my feet :-P... And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. Oh and i weigh about 165ish (+/- 5 pounds), I am 5'11ish, and 22 years old... hehe there is everything that you might need to know! ;-) Thanks again everyone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites niu 0 #12 August 4, 2007 Quote And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. How many jumps on the canopy to begin with? F-111 does not last anywhere near as long as ZP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites desertsky 0 #13 August 4, 2007 Actually, with you being relatively new to the sport, a PD with F111 might work out fine for a first canopy. The 170 sounds like the right size for you. you won't be swooping the ponds anytime soon, and the easier packing of F111 may be a very good start. As others mentioned, you'll want to demo it first and find out if it has the characteristics you want. Also, while you're looking for something to call your own for "years" - you may find that you outgrow the PD 170 after a couple hundred jumps - that's okay - in a year or two you can always sell your PD (and it will still be in good condition) - to another novice jumper, and then you'd very likely want to go back to ZP at that time. My opinion - PD is a fine choice for a novice, and you can probably really enjoy it for a year or two, then pass it on to another novice. Good Luck!*********************************** lookin' for that old time, friendly, club-like dz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #14 August 4, 2007 QuoteHey thanks for all the responses! As for the questions... I am making the change because the sabre2 that I am flying right now I am renting from square2 in eloy. And I am looking to buy myself a canopy that I can call my own. What I really want out of my canopy is: I really like to pull a little higher and have fun with the canopy (turn hard, dive etc)... I am used to landing every jump on my feet :-P... And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. Oh and i weigh about 165ish (+/- 5 pounds), I am 5'11ish, and 22 years old... hehe there is everything that you might need to know! ;-) Thanks again everyone! My advice, keep looking. If you enjoy the canopy you're currently renting from Square2, then look for someone selling a cared for used Saber 2. If you can't find any, then expand your search for the Aerodyne Pilot and Icarus Safire 2, both of which I would submit are the closer competitors to the Saber 2. Also, check into the Flight Concepts Sentry, PD's Spectre and Aerodyne's Triathlon. All of which are solid wings. I've flown each at least a few times and I have no glaring complaints about any of them. The Safire 2 is known for long openings, but boy are they nice (I know one guy that complains about that). The Triathlon is one of my favorite canopies (easy to pack, fly, great openings). Don't rush your decision to buy gear. If money is your primary concern, then especially don't rush it. Save a few more acorns and spend a couple extra hundred, you won't regret it. There's plenty of gear out there. If you test fly that PD-170 F-111 wing, you'll understand.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #15 August 4, 2007 I agree with Gawain. So it's mostly the cost then? I fly a Sabre1 at 150. I love i. It didn't cost me a lot and still has a lot of life left. I wouldn't go back to my Wildfire (F-111). 2nd hand ZP canopies can be picked up very reasonably too. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #16 August 4, 2007 QuoteHey thanks for all the responses! As for the questions... I am making the change because the sabre2 that I am flying right now I am renting from square2 in eloy. And I am looking to buy myself a canopy that I can call my own. What I really want out of my canopy is: I really like to pull a little higher and have fun with the canopy (turn hard, dive etc)... I am used to landing every jump on my feet :-P... And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. Oh and i weigh about 165ish (+/- 5 pounds), I am 5'11ish, and 22 years old... hehe there is everything that you might need to know! ;-) In which case you might consider a PD190 instead. With some wear you don't really want to load F111 canopies over a pound per square foot. Accuracy works best arround .7 as in a 260. Or you could just get a more modern ZP design. Older (firmer opening, less responsive) or less popular designs can be found with hundreds of jumps left on the line set for $300-$400 (Sabre, Monarch, etc.). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #17 August 5, 2007 Watch out for anyone trying to sell you an F-111 canopy. There are some great deals for used Sabre 1's, Spectre and Safire 1's to name a few. This will at least give you a ZP canopy without breaking the bank. You do not want F-111 for such a small canopy. End of story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites illusioneer 0 #18 August 6, 2007 I have always jumped a f-111 canopy. This weekend, for the first time, I jumped a navagator which is zp on top and f-111 on bottom so it flies like zp but not so hard to pack... It was much, much nicer to fly the zp ad it made landing soooo much easier. I will not go back to f-111 unless there is no other optionDEMO ONE FIRST! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drtbikekid1 0 #19 August 21, 2009 I recently was doing my aff and I was flying a 200 navigator top skin zp, bottom skin f111. I got off student status and flew a pd190. I then bought a sabre 170. I can tell you from my experience that the sabre had much more glide, and due to the wing loading had much more forward speed which gave me a more responsive flare. the pd190 was a great canopy just not as responsive as the sabre and the flair was more of a 2 stage from my experience. Both great canopies but I wouldnt go much smaller then a 190 in f111 from what I have heard. Also if you have the money the decision should be a no brainer. with my weight 165 the 20 square foot sabre was a ton more in performance and flared better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LongWayToFall 0 #20 August 22, 2009 I recently went from a pd210 to a sabre 2 190. The pd210 has excellent openings, and at my wing loading (somewhere around 1.2:1) it was zippy under canopy and fun to fly, although the thing that left me wanting more was the flare. It was adequate, but not like the long lasting flare of the sabre 2. My PD was around 100 jumps, so it was still fresh, if it has much more than that it will be a handful on landing. Give it a shot, make sure no wind and not ideal conditions will be no problem and if it checks out I say go for it!!! (I suggest a good one direction roll on the nose to slow it down a tad, even with, I was getting about 400-500ft openings) Rock on F111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites oozzee 0 #21 September 18, 2009 cant go wrong with the sabre Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Andy_Copland 0 #2 August 3, 2007 Demo it first and make your own conclusions 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #3 August 3, 2007 The Sabre is a much nicer canopy then the PD 170. The flare is totally different then the Sabre. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hukturn 0 #4 August 4, 2007 Not if he is trying to sink it in for accuracy. Demo it and see what you think. Talk to someone before you jump it. F-111 performs differently that ZP. Just like 7 cells perform different from 9. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phastasphuk 0 #5 August 4, 2007 Wear boots, practice your PLF to perfection and you are good to go. chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #6 August 4, 2007 It'll be easier to pack, but I don't think you'll like it as much. Try it before you buy it.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #7 August 4, 2007 The Sabre is a much nicer canopy then the PD 170. The flare is totally different then the Sabre. I am confused by this statement. PD makes the sabre??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #8 August 4, 2007 QuoteI have been flying a Sabre2 190 for about 4 months now, and am looking to get a PD 170... I was wondering what can I expect from this canopy? Any help/comments would be great! Square foot for square foot, an F-111 canopy will land harder than a ZP. That's because the porous fabric makes a less efficient wing, all other things being equal. Why are you making this giant leap backwards? What will your new wing loading be? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #9 August 4, 2007 The PD 170 is an older PD design then the Sabre Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #10 August 4, 2007 Hi - Instead of going into an X is better than Y without knowing anything about you. Can I ask a couple of questions? Why are you making the change? What do you want out of a canopy? What sort of flying do you want to do? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Radioshack 0 #11 August 4, 2007 Hey thanks for all the responses! As for the questions... I am making the change because the sabre2 that I am flying right now I am renting from square2 in eloy. And I am looking to buy myself a canopy that I can call my own. What I really want out of my canopy is: I really like to pull a little higher and have fun with the canopy (turn hard, dive etc)... I am used to landing every jump on my feet :-P... And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. Oh and i weigh about 165ish (+/- 5 pounds), I am 5'11ish, and 22 years old... hehe there is everything that you might need to know! ;-) Thanks again everyone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niu 0 #12 August 4, 2007 Quote And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. How many jumps on the canopy to begin with? F-111 does not last anywhere near as long as ZP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
desertsky 0 #13 August 4, 2007 Actually, with you being relatively new to the sport, a PD with F111 might work out fine for a first canopy. The 170 sounds like the right size for you. you won't be swooping the ponds anytime soon, and the easier packing of F111 may be a very good start. As others mentioned, you'll want to demo it first and find out if it has the characteristics you want. Also, while you're looking for something to call your own for "years" - you may find that you outgrow the PD 170 after a couple hundred jumps - that's okay - in a year or two you can always sell your PD (and it will still be in good condition) - to another novice jumper, and then you'd very likely want to go back to ZP at that time. My opinion - PD is a fine choice for a novice, and you can probably really enjoy it for a year or two, then pass it on to another novice. Good Luck!*********************************** lookin' for that old time, friendly, club-like dz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #14 August 4, 2007 QuoteHey thanks for all the responses! As for the questions... I am making the change because the sabre2 that I am flying right now I am renting from square2 in eloy. And I am looking to buy myself a canopy that I can call my own. What I really want out of my canopy is: I really like to pull a little higher and have fun with the canopy (turn hard, dive etc)... I am used to landing every jump on my feet :-P... And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. Oh and i weigh about 165ish (+/- 5 pounds), I am 5'11ish, and 22 years old... hehe there is everything that you might need to know! ;-) Thanks again everyone! My advice, keep looking. If you enjoy the canopy you're currently renting from Square2, then look for someone selling a cared for used Saber 2. If you can't find any, then expand your search for the Aerodyne Pilot and Icarus Safire 2, both of which I would submit are the closer competitors to the Saber 2. Also, check into the Flight Concepts Sentry, PD's Spectre and Aerodyne's Triathlon. All of which are solid wings. I've flown each at least a few times and I have no glaring complaints about any of them. The Safire 2 is known for long openings, but boy are they nice (I know one guy that complains about that). The Triathlon is one of my favorite canopies (easy to pack, fly, great openings). Don't rush your decision to buy gear. If money is your primary concern, then especially don't rush it. Save a few more acorns and spend a couple extra hundred, you won't regret it. There's plenty of gear out there. If you test fly that PD-170 F-111 wing, you'll understand.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #15 August 4, 2007 I agree with Gawain. So it's mostly the cost then? I fly a Sabre1 at 150. I love i. It didn't cost me a lot and still has a lot of life left. I wouldn't go back to my Wildfire (F-111). 2nd hand ZP canopies can be picked up very reasonably too. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #16 August 4, 2007 QuoteHey thanks for all the responses! As for the questions... I am making the change because the sabre2 that I am flying right now I am renting from square2 in eloy. And I am looking to buy myself a canopy that I can call my own. What I really want out of my canopy is: I really like to pull a little higher and have fun with the canopy (turn hard, dive etc)... I am used to landing every jump on my feet :-P... And most of all I want something that I can keep for many jumps. Oh and i weigh about 165ish (+/- 5 pounds), I am 5'11ish, and 22 years old... hehe there is everything that you might need to know! ;-) In which case you might consider a PD190 instead. With some wear you don't really want to load F111 canopies over a pound per square foot. Accuracy works best arround .7 as in a 260. Or you could just get a more modern ZP design. Older (firmer opening, less responsive) or less popular designs can be found with hundreds of jumps left on the line set for $300-$400 (Sabre, Monarch, etc.). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #17 August 5, 2007 Watch out for anyone trying to sell you an F-111 canopy. There are some great deals for used Sabre 1's, Spectre and Safire 1's to name a few. This will at least give you a ZP canopy without breaking the bank. You do not want F-111 for such a small canopy. End of story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
illusioneer 0 #18 August 6, 2007 I have always jumped a f-111 canopy. This weekend, for the first time, I jumped a navagator which is zp on top and f-111 on bottom so it flies like zp but not so hard to pack... It was much, much nicer to fly the zp ad it made landing soooo much easier. I will not go back to f-111 unless there is no other optionDEMO ONE FIRST! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drtbikekid1 0 #19 August 21, 2009 I recently was doing my aff and I was flying a 200 navigator top skin zp, bottom skin f111. I got off student status and flew a pd190. I then bought a sabre 170. I can tell you from my experience that the sabre had much more glide, and due to the wing loading had much more forward speed which gave me a more responsive flare. the pd190 was a great canopy just not as responsive as the sabre and the flair was more of a 2 stage from my experience. Both great canopies but I wouldnt go much smaller then a 190 in f111 from what I have heard. Also if you have the money the decision should be a no brainer. with my weight 165 the 20 square foot sabre was a ton more in performance and flared better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #20 August 22, 2009 I recently went from a pd210 to a sabre 2 190. The pd210 has excellent openings, and at my wing loading (somewhere around 1.2:1) it was zippy under canopy and fun to fly, although the thing that left me wanting more was the flare. It was adequate, but not like the long lasting flare of the sabre 2. My PD was around 100 jumps, so it was still fresh, if it has much more than that it will be a handful on landing. Give it a shot, make sure no wind and not ideal conditions will be no problem and if it checks out I say go for it!!! (I suggest a good one direction roll on the nose to slow it down a tad, even with, I was getting about 400-500ft openings) Rock on F111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oozzee 0 #21 September 18, 2009 cant go wrong with the sabre Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
