Txflier 0 #1 September 10, 2009 Out of curiosity would you consider the Go-Pro camera to be put under the category of needing 200 jumps as recommended by the USPA? I meet somebody that had under 200 jumping one. Seems to me it wouldn't pose much of a danger being so small. Curious to hear some opinions.I'm not the rope totin charlie Bronson wanna be that's getting us fucking lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,445 #2 September 10, 2009 The problem isn't the size of the camera affecting the flying; it's the distracting nature of having a camera, a noticeable complicating factor, on a jump. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VideoFly 0 #3 September 10, 2009 +1 It is difficult for a new camera flyer to understand the extent to which flying a camera may be a distraction at all points during skydiving operations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Txflier 0 #4 September 10, 2009 Just playing devils advocate. Seems like if you were just flying how you normally do, but just wanted some video it wouldn't pose any distraction. As in forget it's there and just focus on your jump.I'm not the rope totin charlie Bronson wanna be that's getting us fucking lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #5 September 10, 2009 QuoteJust playing devils advocate. Seems like if you were just flying how you normally do, but just wanted some video it wouldn't pose any distraction. As in forget it's there and just focus on your jump. You can't. It's been demonstrated time and again. If you read the STICKY in the Photography forum, you'll read two separate examples of well-known skydivers flying outside camera, intending to "not pay attention" to the camera, and finding themselves in a jam. It's not the size/weight of the camera that created the 200 jump recommendation. It's the way it changes the way you'll fly and what you're paying attention to whether you think you are or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,445 #6 September 10, 2009 That's low on the likely tree, for all the same reasons that someone buying a small swoopable main and promising to be very conservative is low on the likely tree. It calls out to you on ever single jump here I am I'll enhance your jump experience You can do it And maybe you can. Unless, of course, it's the rare jump where stuff goes wrong more than one at a time. And then you're more likely to be fucked than someone with more jumps under their belt. It's not a universal law, but it sure seems to work like that pretty often. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Txflier 0 #7 September 10, 2009 Quote Quote Just playing devils advocate. Seems like if you were just flying how you normally do, but just wanted some video it wouldn't pose any distraction. As in forget it's there and just focus on your jump. You can't. It's been demonstrated time and again. If you read the STICKY in the Photography forum, you'll read two separate examples of well-known skydivers flying outside camera, intending to "not pay attention" to the camera, and finding themselves in a jam. It's not the size/weight of the camera that created the 200 jump recommendation. It's the way it changes the way you'll fly and what you're paying attention to whether you think you are or not. Quote damn I haven't looked around here enough lately didn't even see there was a photography forum. I would have posted this there. N don't get me wrong I'm not planning on getting one. I'd rather spend the money on jumps since I am limited on funds being in school and no job. @Wendy yeah your probably right. It'd probably be like a kid at christmas with a new toy wanting to play with it all the time. I'm not the rope totin charlie Bronson wanna be that's getting us fucking lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Txflier 0 #8 September 10, 2009 Thanks for the sticky link. Lots of good info on there for when I do start jumping camera. I'm not the rope totin charlie Bronson wanna be that's getting us fucking lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #9 September 10, 2009 QuoteThe problem isn't the size of the camera affecting the flying; it's the distracting nature of having a camera, a noticeable complicating factor, on a jump. Wendy P. +1 What she said!!!Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #10 September 10, 2009 Quote Just playing devils advocate. Seems like if you were just flying how you normally do, but just wanted some video it wouldn't pose any distraction. As in forget it's there and just focus on your jump. Where have I heard that lol.. Oh wait I said it1150 jumps ago Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Txflier 0 #11 September 10, 2009 Quote Quote Just playing devils advocate. Seems like if you were just flying how you normally do, but just wanted some video it wouldn't pose any distraction. As in forget it's there and just focus on your jump. Where have I heard that lol.. Oh wait I said it1150 jumps ago Quote I'm not the rope totin charlie Bronson wanna be that's getting us fucking lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bgillespie 0 #12 September 11, 2009 just my experience..I have a go pro that i put on my freefly and full face helmet and a cookie with a TG1. When i jump the go pro i do not pay any attention to what is being recorded. I often forget it is even there (leaving it on long after landing and often forget to turn it on in the plane). This might be due to the fact that i have jumped the non camera helmets for awhile and the go pro was an add on. If it does affect my flying, I haven't noticed..maybe it does. I use the go pro when my focus is not on filming and just like to have some evidence later of a really good (or funny) jump.Ben Gillespie D-31054 Muff Bro #4188 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Txflier 0 #13 September 11, 2009 Quotejust my experience..I have a go pro that i put on my freefly and full face helmet and a cookie with a TG1. When i jump the go pro i do not pay any attention to what is being recorded. I often forget it is even there (leaving it on long after landing and often forget to turn it on in the plane). This might be due to the fact that i have jumped the non camera helmets for awhile and the go pro was an add on. If it does affect my flying, I haven't noticed..maybe it does. I use the go pro when my focus is not on filming and just like to have some evidence later of a really good (or funny) jump. Quotewere you at the deadman III Boogie??I'm not the rope totin charlie Bronson wanna be that's getting us fucking lost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hellis 0 #14 September 11, 2009 when we are talking about those smal cameras anyway, i have a smal question. since the size of Go-pro and other bullitcameras are so smal do you really need a cutaway on the helmet? they are usually mounted with tape or a strap. it looks like the cameras will fall off quicker than you can cut the helmet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrwrong 0 #15 September 11, 2009 Check the "SBF" Section 402.06 (page 36) Point 6.3.2 and 6.3.4 (applies ONLY to helmets where the cam is put in the box from the inside of the helmet and doesn't have ANY external snag points what so ever). So Hellis, short answer is YES!!!“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw He who dies with the most toys, wins..... dudeist skydiver # 19515 Buy quality and cry once! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Joellercoaster 6 #16 September 11, 2009 Quoteit looks like the cameras will fall off quicker than you can cut the helmet Unless it doesn't. When the whole thing is tangled up in a high-speed problem, like maybe a malfunctioning main or another jumper, forces can be very high and come from weird directions. Plastic breakaway screws are a much better way of helping a snag go away than relying on something that "looks like it'll probably fall off". And a helmet cutaway is even better. To the people who post in threads like these saying "but I have 120 jumps and I've been jumping camera since 100, and I'm fine", you're not. No offense to you and your kickassness, but you don't know what "fine" is. 200 isn't so many jumps to wait to gain a bit of situational awareness. And it's a bare minimum, not a guarantee of having enough experience.-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjumpenfool 2 #17 September 12, 2009 Quote just my experience..I have a go pro that i put on my freefly and full face helmet and a cookie with a TG1. When i jump the go pro i do not pay any attention to what is being recorded. I often forget it is even there (leaving it on long after landing and often forget to turn it on in the plane). This might be due to the fact that i have jumped the non camera helmets for awhile and the go pro was an add on. If it does affect my flying, I haven't noticed..maybe it does. I use the go pro when my focus is not on filming and just like to have some evidence later of a really good (or funny) jump. All this knowlege and only 130 some odd jumps. Where do I sign up for your next training camp and what is the cost? I just want to make sure I don't miss the sign-up deadline!! Just a rant from a self proclaimed life long student of the sport.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #18 September 12, 2009 Quotewhen we are talking about those smal cameras anyway, i have a smal question. since the size of Go-pro and other bullitcameras are so smal do you really need a cutaway on the helmet? they are usually mounted with tape or a strap. it looks like the cameras will fall off quicker than you can cut the helmet Try it for yourself. Industrial doublestick is available everywhere. We put a GoPro on a Bonehead Mindwarp and ran Spectra 500. Using an archery scale, we measured the pull (helmet in a bench-mounted vise). With the spectra wrapped over the mount itself at the tape point, just over 240lbs was required to rip the camera from the helmet. if the line was snagged at the lens, just over 100 lbs of force was required. There is no higher point on the camera which could be used as a snag point, or I'm sure the forces/leverage would have further reduced. Either way...that's a lot of force that could have quite an impact on your opening or your neck. Don't kid yourself just because it's "only tape." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sffudapparel 0 #19 September 13, 2009 Quote Try it for yourself. Industrial doublestick is available everywhere. We put a GoPro on a Bonehead Mindwarp and ran Spectra 500. Using an archery scale, we measured the pull (helmet in a bench-mounted vise). With the spectra wrapped over the mount itself at the tape point, just over 240lbs was required to rip the camera from the helmet. if the line was snagged at the lens, just over 100 lbs of force was required. There is no higher point on the camera which could be used as a snag point, or I'm sure the forces/leverage would have further reduced. Either way...that's a lot of force that could have quite an impact on your opening or your neck. Don't kid yourself just because it's "only tape." That's great info DSE, thanks for posting that. A friend and I were debating how much force would be required last week at a boogie. Good to know solid data exists!Dream my life, live my dream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #20 September 13, 2009 Quote Quote Try it for yourself. Industrial doublestick is available everywhere. We put a GoPro on a Bonehead Mindwarp and ran Spectra 500. Using an archery scale, we measured the pull (helmet in a bench-mounted vise). With the spectra wrapped over the mount itself at the tape point, just over 240lbs was required to rip the camera from the helmet. if the line was snagged at the lens, just over 100 lbs of force was required. There is no higher point on the camera which could be used as a snag point, or I'm sure the forces/leverage would have further reduced. Either way...that's a lot of force that could have quite an impact on your opening or your neck. Don't kid yourself just because it's "only tape." That's great info DSE, thanks for posting that. A friend and I were debating how much force would be required last week at a boogie. Good to know solid data exists! I dunno if I'd call it "solid" but it's pretty telling. Maybe the tape gets stronger or weaker over time. Maybe users don't always use alcohol on their helmets before adhering the tape, maybe maybe, maybe... it was mostly a curiosity than anything else. Either way...it was pretty surprising to see the scale cross 200lbs pull force. Hey....when you're not able to jump, you come up with all kinds of dumb things to occupy your time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #21 September 13, 2009 QuoteMaybe users don't always use alcohol on their helmets before adhering the tape, I wonder how many people are going to pour beer all over their camera helmets to get the gaffers tape to stick better. "But DSE said to..." or "it was the only alcohol on the DZ." Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #22 September 13, 2009 QuoteOut of curiosity would you consider the Go-Pro camera to be put under the category of needing 200 jumps as recommended by the USPA? I meet somebody that had under 200 jumping one. What you end up doing is wasting jumps trying to learn 2 new things. You should concentrate on learning the basic of flying you body first that is what the 200 jump limit is attempting to do. Get real good at being is the exact spot in the air at the exact time you want to. Sounds simple but try it a few times. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites oozzee 0 #23 September 15, 2009 try wing suit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 5 #24 September 15, 2009 Quote Quote Maybe users don't always use alcohol on their helmets before adhering the tape, I wonder how many people are going to pour beer all over their camera helmets to get the gaffers tape to stick better. "But DSE said to..." or "it was the only alcohol on the DZ." Dave You owe me a computer screen cleaning for that one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #25 September 16, 2009 Quote try wing suit I have, you need a valet to in and of the damn things. 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Hellis 0 #14 September 11, 2009 when we are talking about those smal cameras anyway, i have a smal question. since the size of Go-pro and other bullitcameras are so smal do you really need a cutaway on the helmet? they are usually mounted with tape or a strap. it looks like the cameras will fall off quicker than you can cut the helmet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrwrong 0 #15 September 11, 2009 Check the "SBF" Section 402.06 (page 36) Point 6.3.2 and 6.3.4 (applies ONLY to helmets where the cam is put in the box from the inside of the helmet and doesn't have ANY external snag points what so ever). So Hellis, short answer is YES!!!“The sum of intelligence on the planet is a constant; the population is growing.” - George Bernard Shaw He who dies with the most toys, wins..... dudeist skydiver # 19515 Buy quality and cry once! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #16 September 11, 2009 Quoteit looks like the cameras will fall off quicker than you can cut the helmet Unless it doesn't. When the whole thing is tangled up in a high-speed problem, like maybe a malfunctioning main or another jumper, forces can be very high and come from weird directions. Plastic breakaway screws are a much better way of helping a snag go away than relying on something that "looks like it'll probably fall off". And a helmet cutaway is even better. To the people who post in threads like these saying "but I have 120 jumps and I've been jumping camera since 100, and I'm fine", you're not. No offense to you and your kickassness, but you don't know what "fine" is. 200 isn't so many jumps to wait to gain a bit of situational awareness. And it's a bare minimum, not a guarantee of having enough experience.-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #17 September 12, 2009 Quote just my experience..I have a go pro that i put on my freefly and full face helmet and a cookie with a TG1. When i jump the go pro i do not pay any attention to what is being recorded. I often forget it is even there (leaving it on long after landing and often forget to turn it on in the plane). This might be due to the fact that i have jumped the non camera helmets for awhile and the go pro was an add on. If it does affect my flying, I haven't noticed..maybe it does. I use the go pro when my focus is not on filming and just like to have some evidence later of a really good (or funny) jump. All this knowlege and only 130 some odd jumps. Where do I sign up for your next training camp and what is the cost? I just want to make sure I don't miss the sign-up deadline!! Just a rant from a self proclaimed life long student of the sport.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #18 September 12, 2009 Quotewhen we are talking about those smal cameras anyway, i have a smal question. since the size of Go-pro and other bullitcameras are so smal do you really need a cutaway on the helmet? they are usually mounted with tape or a strap. it looks like the cameras will fall off quicker than you can cut the helmet Try it for yourself. Industrial doublestick is available everywhere. We put a GoPro on a Bonehead Mindwarp and ran Spectra 500. Using an archery scale, we measured the pull (helmet in a bench-mounted vise). With the spectra wrapped over the mount itself at the tape point, just over 240lbs was required to rip the camera from the helmet. if the line was snagged at the lens, just over 100 lbs of force was required. There is no higher point on the camera which could be used as a snag point, or I'm sure the forces/leverage would have further reduced. Either way...that's a lot of force that could have quite an impact on your opening or your neck. Don't kid yourself just because it's "only tape." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sffudapparel 0 #19 September 13, 2009 Quote Try it for yourself. Industrial doublestick is available everywhere. We put a GoPro on a Bonehead Mindwarp and ran Spectra 500. Using an archery scale, we measured the pull (helmet in a bench-mounted vise). With the spectra wrapped over the mount itself at the tape point, just over 240lbs was required to rip the camera from the helmet. if the line was snagged at the lens, just over 100 lbs of force was required. There is no higher point on the camera which could be used as a snag point, or I'm sure the forces/leverage would have further reduced. Either way...that's a lot of force that could have quite an impact on your opening or your neck. Don't kid yourself just because it's "only tape." That's great info DSE, thanks for posting that. A friend and I were debating how much force would be required last week at a boogie. Good to know solid data exists!Dream my life, live my dream Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #20 September 13, 2009 Quote Quote Try it for yourself. Industrial doublestick is available everywhere. We put a GoPro on a Bonehead Mindwarp and ran Spectra 500. Using an archery scale, we measured the pull (helmet in a bench-mounted vise). With the spectra wrapped over the mount itself at the tape point, just over 240lbs was required to rip the camera from the helmet. if the line was snagged at the lens, just over 100 lbs of force was required. There is no higher point on the camera which could be used as a snag point, or I'm sure the forces/leverage would have further reduced. Either way...that's a lot of force that could have quite an impact on your opening or your neck. Don't kid yourself just because it's "only tape." That's great info DSE, thanks for posting that. A friend and I were debating how much force would be required last week at a boogie. Good to know solid data exists! I dunno if I'd call it "solid" but it's pretty telling. Maybe the tape gets stronger or weaker over time. Maybe users don't always use alcohol on their helmets before adhering the tape, maybe maybe, maybe... it was mostly a curiosity than anything else. Either way...it was pretty surprising to see the scale cross 200lbs pull force. Hey....when you're not able to jump, you come up with all kinds of dumb things to occupy your time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #21 September 13, 2009 QuoteMaybe users don't always use alcohol on their helmets before adhering the tape, I wonder how many people are going to pour beer all over their camera helmets to get the gaffers tape to stick better. "But DSE said to..." or "it was the only alcohol on the DZ." Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #22 September 13, 2009 QuoteOut of curiosity would you consider the Go-Pro camera to be put under the category of needing 200 jumps as recommended by the USPA? I meet somebody that had under 200 jumping one. What you end up doing is wasting jumps trying to learn 2 new things. You should concentrate on learning the basic of flying you body first that is what the 200 jump limit is attempting to do. Get real good at being is the exact spot in the air at the exact time you want to. Sounds simple but try it a few times. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oozzee 0 #23 September 15, 2009 try wing suit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #24 September 15, 2009 Quote Quote Maybe users don't always use alcohol on their helmets before adhering the tape, I wonder how many people are going to pour beer all over their camera helmets to get the gaffers tape to stick better. "But DSE said to..." or "it was the only alcohol on the DZ." Dave You owe me a computer screen cleaning for that one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #25 September 16, 2009 Quote try wing suit I have, you need a valet to in and of the damn things. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
