billvon 2,989 #26 August 26, 2009 > I know it's not for everyone and yes there can be safer ways of doing a hop & >pop but I don't think we should go so far as to ban it or ostracize those who >participate/allow in it. I didn't suggest that we ban it or crucify people who allow it. We should just let them know that they are being idiots. Sorta like the 45 degree rule. Sure, people do it - and they even avoid collisions most of the time. Doesn't make it a good idea. >I'd rather have the freedom of choice and let each dz/jumper decide to allow it >or if they can safely do it. If you saw a newer DZO letting jumpers do "throw and gos" in the door, would you talk to him about it and explain the risk? Or would you just decide that he should be allowed freedom of choice, and you have no right to tell him your mind? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #27 August 26, 2009 Quote >I'd rather have the freedom of choice and let each dz/jumper decide to allow it >or if they can safely do it. If you saw a newer DZO letting jumpers do "throw and gos" in the door, would you talk to him about it and explain the risk? Or would you just decide that he should be allowed freedom of choice, and you have no right to tell him your mind? By freedom of choice, I meant properly informed, aware of the benefits and risks, etc. Then make the decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1racer696 0 #28 August 26, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy? What's the rush to get in 200 jumps? 1. I heard on hop-n-pops they don't cutback on jump run, and there was actually an incident where a jumper hit the stabilizer. 2. It's not a USPA Dropzone. Whether it be urban legend or not, there seems to be a consensus that because it is not governed by USPA, people don't follow the same rules. what do you mean they dont cutback on jump run? oh dude DUde DUDE BRO DUDE. omg DUDE! ummmmm. i forgot.... Dudeist Skydiver #61 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cloudtramp 0 #29 August 26, 2009 LODI and... have fun! Don't die Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,989 #30 August 26, 2009 > I meant properly informed, aware of the benefits and risks, etc. OK. What are the benefits? We've already had very experienced turbine pilots say that the fuel savings are unmeasurable. We've seen the downside, what's the upside? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tetra316 0 #31 August 26, 2009 Quote> I meant properly informed, aware of the benefits and risks, etc. OK. What are the benefits? We've already had very experienced turbine pilots say that the fuel savings are unmeasurable. We've seen the downside, what's the upside? I was speaking generically. Aware of the benenfits and risk to any choice or way of operating. As for benefits to non-cut hop & pops, I'm not a pilot or dzo, but I have always been told it saves time and fuel. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But I do know a lot of people seem to believe there are benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,989 #32 August 26, 2009 >Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Fair enough. So how will you _get_ properly informed, so you can make that decision? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BDashe 0 #33 August 26, 2009 Bill, I believe there are a couple other threads discussing no cut Hop n' Pops and a tailstrike incident by a darwin award winner. I'm too lazy to search for them, though it is a great function I've been told. As a reminder, the thread topic is where are cheap jumps at a safe place. Can anyone beat $13 in Lodi or $17 in Byron? Both places are safe with loads of talent IMO.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 1 #34 August 26, 2009 They slow down for hop -n- pops, you may as well drop it. (not you BDashe,) I jump both Byron and Lodi. They're both good dropzones. If you want more jumps, go to Lodi, they have talent, good prices, and the best tandem and rental gear of any dropzone. I love Byron. Most of my jumps were done there. You can do hook turns there too by the way, (forgive me, I mean swoop landings using a speed induced turn greater than a 90). If mass jumps are the goal, I still have to suggest Lodi.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jf951 1 #35 August 26, 2009 QuoteAh, I'm quite keen on learning to use a wingsuit and other advanced skills - ...and i just want to become a professional athlete and have a Ph.D in economics, but im not. its called advanced skills because they've spent countless hours doing what they do and they've gained exceptional skill at it. but I want to do it as safely as possible. For this I need to do a course and I need a minimum of 200 jumps before I can do any of the reputable courses. Hence the requirement for 200. Sadly I don't really want to spend too much time skydiving itself -a skydiver with thousands of more jumps than i have told me that a wingsuiter is a skydiver first and a wingsuiter second, hate to break it to you. as, for me, it is a means to get the skills I need to do what I want, rather than an end in itself. Also, I'm a firm believer in getting things done as quickly as is reasonably practicable in order to make sure the experience is best used (i.e. no month long periods of inactivity).Jump more, Bitch less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #36 August 26, 2009 Quote> I meant properly informed, aware of the benefits and risks, etc. OK. What are the benefits? We've already had very experienced turbine pilots say that the fuel savings are unmeasurable. We've seen the downside, what's the upside? Time is a cost as well, esp for the volume that Lodi does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #37 August 26, 2009 I'll pay more for a cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites surfbum5412 0 #38 August 26, 2009 Quote 2. And just what would those 'rules' be? I've never jumped there. I'm assuming you don't agree with the consensus. I'll remember in my head to tally you in (-1 vote for LODI being unsafe). I also heard through the grapevine that the DZO is a douche. Is that true? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,439 #39 August 26, 2009 I haven't seen him in 30+ years, but at least then he was a strong personality with strong opinions. He owns his own successful business. Doesn't make him a douche. But if you want to use his business, you need to pay attention to his (few) rules, and take care of yourself. He has survived more skydives than almost everyone else in the world, and he has more freefall time than anyone else in the world. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #40 August 26, 2009 Quote I haven't seen him in 30+ years, but at least then he was a strong personality with strong opinions. He owns his own successful business. Doesn't make him a douche. But if you want to use his business, you need to pay attention to his (few) rules, and take care of yourself. He has survived more skydives than almost everyone else in the world, and he has more freefall time than anyone else in the world. Bill's pretty much the same now. The part I bolded is the most important part if you want to jump regularly at Lodi. It's not for everyone."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites f1racer696 0 #41 August 26, 2009 idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche oh dude DUde DUDE BRO DUDE. omg DUDE! ummmmm. i forgot.... Dudeist Skydiver #61 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #42 August 26, 2009 Quote idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche Um, both Wendy and I confirmed that he's not a douche."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tetra316 0 #43 August 26, 2009 Quote Quote idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche Um, both Wendy and I confirmed that he's not a douche. As will I. The only rule there really is, is don't piss off Bill. Which means if he says don't do something, like any turn over 90 degrees now, then don't do it. I'll jump there any day. Just wished I lived closer to take advantage of the lower prices and incredible talent in ALL disciplines that is there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites f1racer696 0 #44 August 26, 2009 Quote Quote idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche Um, both Wendy and I confirmed that he's not a douche. sorry that wasnt really meant for you two. mostly just the person who said he was a douche (or heard he was). and i guess using "you guys" wasnt right either since it was only one person haha. my bad. oh dude DUde DUDE BRO DUDE. omg DUDE! ummmmm. i forgot.... Dudeist Skydiver #61 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 1 #45 August 26, 2009 QuoteI'll pay more for a cut. They cut the last 8 times I've been there.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,439 #46 August 26, 2009 Something to consider: people are always whining about people who let stuff that "shouldn't happen" happen at their DZ's. Bill acts like a DZO -- he makes rules, and enforces them. He'll kick you off his DZ, making your life a little bit more difficult. Maybe the reaction to him is part of why so many other DZO's don't do it. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,989 #47 August 26, 2009 >He'll kick you off his DZ, making your life a little bit more difficult. Definitely true! I know people who have been kicked out of Lodi a dozen times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites squirrelgirl 0 #48 August 26, 2009 While I'm nowhere near qualified to comment on safety vs price vs experience etc... I will say that if you come to California to jump at LODI, then you could also stop in at Byron. The prices are reasonable, but the bottom line is that I love jumping there and I bet you will, too. And, once you're in CA, you could jump in lots of different spots at lots of different times of the year because the weather is pretty fantastic. Just my $0.02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot1 0 #49 August 27, 2009 Quote Hey all :) Just wondering, does anyone have any suggestions on where I can rack up as many jumps as possible as quickly and cheaply as possible. i'm looking to get 200 jumps done out of the way as quickly as I can, but need to find a DZ which is reputable and cheap to get them done... can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm happy to travel anywhere in the world given the cost of this endeavor, so yeah, any suggestions gratefully received :) Thanks in advance :) Kia, right? Enjoy all the non USPA, DZO douche banter and come to Lodi. Also bring a good head on your shoulders and some thick skin, you should be just fine..... Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tuna-Salad 0 #50 August 27, 2009 Time to learn vs jump numbers? Time always wins... The sky isn't going anywhere. What's the rush?Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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cloudtramp 0 #29 August 26, 2009 LODI and... have fun! Don't die Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #30 August 26, 2009 > I meant properly informed, aware of the benefits and risks, etc. OK. What are the benefits? We've already had very experienced turbine pilots say that the fuel savings are unmeasurable. We've seen the downside, what's the upside? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #31 August 26, 2009 Quote> I meant properly informed, aware of the benefits and risks, etc. OK. What are the benefits? We've already had very experienced turbine pilots say that the fuel savings are unmeasurable. We've seen the downside, what's the upside? I was speaking generically. Aware of the benenfits and risk to any choice or way of operating. As for benefits to non-cut hop & pops, I'm not a pilot or dzo, but I have always been told it saves time and fuel. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But I do know a lot of people seem to believe there are benefits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #32 August 26, 2009 >Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Fair enough. So how will you _get_ properly informed, so you can make that decision? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDashe 0 #33 August 26, 2009 Bill, I believe there are a couple other threads discussing no cut Hop n' Pops and a tailstrike incident by a darwin award winner. I'm too lazy to search for them, though it is a great function I've been told. As a reminder, the thread topic is where are cheap jumps at a safe place. Can anyone beat $13 in Lodi or $17 in Byron? Both places are safe with loads of talent IMO.So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #34 August 26, 2009 They slow down for hop -n- pops, you may as well drop it. (not you BDashe,) I jump both Byron and Lodi. They're both good dropzones. If you want more jumps, go to Lodi, they have talent, good prices, and the best tandem and rental gear of any dropzone. I love Byron. Most of my jumps were done there. You can do hook turns there too by the way, (forgive me, I mean swoop landings using a speed induced turn greater than a 90). If mass jumps are the goal, I still have to suggest Lodi.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jf951 1 #35 August 26, 2009 QuoteAh, I'm quite keen on learning to use a wingsuit and other advanced skills - ...and i just want to become a professional athlete and have a Ph.D in economics, but im not. its called advanced skills because they've spent countless hours doing what they do and they've gained exceptional skill at it. but I want to do it as safely as possible. For this I need to do a course and I need a minimum of 200 jumps before I can do any of the reputable courses. Hence the requirement for 200. Sadly I don't really want to spend too much time skydiving itself -a skydiver with thousands of more jumps than i have told me that a wingsuiter is a skydiver first and a wingsuiter second, hate to break it to you. as, for me, it is a means to get the skills I need to do what I want, rather than an end in itself. Also, I'm a firm believer in getting things done as quickly as is reasonably practicable in order to make sure the experience is best used (i.e. no month long periods of inactivity).Jump more, Bitch less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 August 26, 2009 Quote> I meant properly informed, aware of the benefits and risks, etc. OK. What are the benefits? We've already had very experienced turbine pilots say that the fuel savings are unmeasurable. We've seen the downside, what's the upside? Time is a cost as well, esp for the volume that Lodi does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #37 August 26, 2009 I'll pay more for a cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surfbum5412 0 #38 August 26, 2009 Quote 2. And just what would those 'rules' be? I've never jumped there. I'm assuming you don't agree with the consensus. I'll remember in my head to tally you in (-1 vote for LODI being unsafe). I also heard through the grapevine that the DZO is a douche. Is that true? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #39 August 26, 2009 I haven't seen him in 30+ years, but at least then he was a strong personality with strong opinions. He owns his own successful business. Doesn't make him a douche. But if you want to use his business, you need to pay attention to his (few) rules, and take care of yourself. He has survived more skydives than almost everyone else in the world, and he has more freefall time than anyone else in the world. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #40 August 26, 2009 Quote I haven't seen him in 30+ years, but at least then he was a strong personality with strong opinions. He owns his own successful business. Doesn't make him a douche. But if you want to use his business, you need to pay attention to his (few) rules, and take care of yourself. He has survived more skydives than almost everyone else in the world, and he has more freefall time than anyone else in the world. Bill's pretty much the same now. The part I bolded is the most important part if you want to jump regularly at Lodi. It's not for everyone."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1racer696 0 #41 August 26, 2009 idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche oh dude DUde DUDE BRO DUDE. omg DUDE! ummmmm. i forgot.... Dudeist Skydiver #61 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #42 August 26, 2009 Quote idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche Um, both Wendy and I confirmed that he's not a douche."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #43 August 26, 2009 Quote Quote idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche Um, both Wendy and I confirmed that he's not a douche. As will I. The only rule there really is, is don't piss off Bill. Which means if he says don't do something, like any turn over 90 degrees now, then don't do it. I'll jump there any day. Just wished I lived closer to take advantage of the lower prices and incredible talent in ALL disciplines that is there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1racer696 0 #44 August 26, 2009 Quote Quote idk what you guys are talking about, Bill is awesome. he knows more about skydiving than probably anyone i will ever meet. hes a good guy, and even cooler once you get to know him. but definatley NOT a douche Um, both Wendy and I confirmed that he's not a douche. sorry that wasnt really meant for you two. mostly just the person who said he was a douche (or heard he was). and i guess using "you guys" wasnt right either since it was only one person haha. my bad. oh dude DUde DUDE BRO DUDE. omg DUDE! ummmmm. i forgot.... Dudeist Skydiver #61 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #45 August 26, 2009 QuoteI'll pay more for a cut. They cut the last 8 times I've been there.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #46 August 26, 2009 Something to consider: people are always whining about people who let stuff that "shouldn't happen" happen at their DZ's. Bill acts like a DZO -- he makes rules, and enforces them. He'll kick you off his DZ, making your life a little bit more difficult. Maybe the reaction to him is part of why so many other DZO's don't do it. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #47 August 26, 2009 >He'll kick you off his DZ, making your life a little bit more difficult. Definitely true! I know people who have been kicked out of Lodi a dozen times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrelgirl 0 #48 August 26, 2009 While I'm nowhere near qualified to comment on safety vs price vs experience etc... I will say that if you come to California to jump at LODI, then you could also stop in at Byron. The prices are reasonable, but the bottom line is that I love jumping there and I bet you will, too. And, once you're in CA, you could jump in lots of different spots at lots of different times of the year because the weather is pretty fantastic. Just my $0.02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #49 August 27, 2009 Quote Hey all :) Just wondering, does anyone have any suggestions on where I can rack up as many jumps as possible as quickly and cheaply as possible. i'm looking to get 200 jumps done out of the way as quickly as I can, but need to find a DZ which is reputable and cheap to get them done... can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm happy to travel anywhere in the world given the cost of this endeavor, so yeah, any suggestions gratefully received :) Thanks in advance :) Kia, right? Enjoy all the non USPA, DZO douche banter and come to Lodi. Also bring a good head on your shoulders and some thick skin, you should be just fine..... Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuna-Salad 0 #50 August 27, 2009 Time to learn vs jump numbers? Time always wins... The sky isn't going anywhere. What's the rush?Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
