diablopilot 2 #101 January 14, 2008 Quote I practis every weekend Atmonauti in Italy, in the home DZ of the inventors I guess the theory is, if people keep saying it, one day it must be true. What a joke.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #102 January 14, 2008 Quote Look at the rig that appeares to obtain lift and the depression behind it: http://www.airtoair.it/paracadutismo.it/sacca.jpg Look at the t-shirt in which direction goes end the depression below the left arm: http://www.airtoair.it/paracadutismo.it/maglietta.jpg Check the atmo-tandem whithout drog (in any case the vertical speed is about 160-170 kmph): http://www.airtoair.it/paracadutismo.it/atmotandem.jpg I'm not totally skeptical about atmo flying, although its proponents do tend to over-hype it. Some of the links don't seem to show anything out of the ordinary. The evidence of lift in the photos seems like it could be the same as during tracking, or indeed from simple 'base drag' or burble in vertical belly to earth flying. And some guy leaves his harness a bit loose, big deal. However compared to tracking and vertical belly fly, the wind direction in the photos is largely aligned with the upper body, or coming at say 0 to 20 degrees below the line of the upper body. I don't know what that implies for any of the atmo arguments. As for descent rates, I'd want to see something like Protrack traces for atmo vs. tracking, whether it is for tandem or just regular jumpers. From the theoretical standpoint I don't see huge objections to the idea of atmonauti being somewhat efficient in terms of upwards force, keeping fall rates low while still providing a lot of forward speed. Some '60s US wind tunnel studies did show similar peak lift to drag ratios for two different body positions: a) a straight body position similar to tracking and b) bent forward at the waist (sometimes with lower legs aligned more with the body than the upper legs), which is atmonauti-like. (Angles of attack were varied to find the best for each condition.) In other words, one can get efficient flight (low descent rates and fast forward motion) either with a flat body position, or one with a a lot of forward bend at the waist. Both can work. (I figure largely because humans aren't really acting as unstalled airfoils --- it is all post-stall, vortex, or flat plate sort of lift, without getting into the details.) Part of the problem in the atmo argument is understanding what is being argued. Is it that atmo isn't as efficient as it is claimed (compared to tracking), or just that it is over hyped as capital-A Atmonauti? (Something like it used to be with Olav and "his" "Freeflying".) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yeyo 1 #103 January 14, 2008 Have not done this enough times to reach any conclusion, but I have tried the atmonauti position during 6-8 tracking jumps. I noticed that I went ahead and up. Like if I was getting more fwd speed and less fallrate. Is that the norm or is it just me? I read somewhere that it was the opposite when comparing atmo vs track...HISPA #93 DS #419.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #104 January 14, 2008 Babelfish translated Atmonauti: Freefalling while contorting your body at awkawrd angles to attain various degrees of lateral movement."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,556 #105 January 14, 2008 QuoteBabelfish translated Atmonauti: Freefalling while contorting your body at awkawrd angles to attain various degrees of lateral movement. Since when is the Atmonauti position awkward? Now, I'm skeptical about Atmonauti being potentially more efficient than a conventional max track but for group dives it is a position that is easy, relaxed, efficient and allows great flexibility of movement for taking grips.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #106 January 15, 2008 It looks awkward, like you're trying to poop upwards."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #107 January 16, 2008 Quote Flocking(steep diagonal flight) is horizontal movement with the torso predominantly vertical with respect to the ground. Oh - like beginning freeflyers when they backslide up the jump run. Got it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #108 January 16, 2008 I didn't read theentire thread so excuseme if it's alreadybeen said.... Guys...It seems simple to me...it's just an approach angle difference with a name attached. Kinda like: Head at 0 degrees off the Vertical = Sitfly Head at 180 degrees off the Vertical = Head-Down Head at ~45 degrees off the Horizontal = Atmonauti What's the big deal? Why knock somebody that's having fun? Most freeflyers are flying Atmo when they start trying to go head down anyway...which is really funny (unless you're the one in the sky with them at the time.) Oh...wait. Belly flyers did that knocking thing when those crazy kids started trying to control the flailing without getting over onto their bellies.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #109 January 16, 2008 QuoteI didn't read theentire thread so excuseme if it's alreadybeen said.... Guys...It seems simple to me...it's just an approach angle difference with a name attached. Kinda like: Head at 0 degrees off the Vertical = Sitfly Head at 180 degrees off the Vertical = Head-Down Head at ~45 degrees off the Horizontal = Atmonauti What's the big deal? Why knock somebody that's having fun? Most freeflyers are flying Atmo when they start trying to go head down anyway...which is really funny (unless you're the one in the sky with them at the time.) Oh...wait. Belly flyers did that knocking thing when those crazy kids started trying to control the flailing without getting over onto their bellies. What I and some others are knocking is the people who claimed to have "invented" it and their blind faith followers.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #110 January 16, 2008 You make it sound like a religion. It's just another way to have fun. Who cares if someone says the "invented" it and others agree with them. It's not like they are trying to charge people money to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #111 January 16, 2008 If it's all about fun, then why have they been so quick to snub anyone who has done it before their "invention", or so ready to tell people that they are "doing it wrong"? It's snobbery.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #112 January 16, 2008 So what if they act like skygods. I just ignore those people and continue on doing what I am doing. My thing is VRW 4 way. I don't care about atmonauti enough to get upset about a bunch of people being all snobby about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #113 January 17, 2008 Quote So what if they act like skygods. Quote what a crock of shit!!! I was joining in on some atmo big ways at a boogie in 2005. Anyone could join, in everyone was encouraged to join in. we did, we had fun and that is the size of it. Flat flyers and freeflyers that think they are skygods and refuse to try other disciplines because they are scared of looking bad are the snobs of our sport. atmonauti can be tried by all levels of skydivers (excluding students) and the best thing is that jumpers of all levels have a good chance of being part of the dive. This is not the case for flat flyers and freeflyers. If you sink our it is easy to get beck and if you are floating it is easy to get down. You sceptics need to broaden your horizons and stop being such prudes. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #114 January 17, 2008 Prudes my assWe were "flocking" long before the "Atmonauti" dudes , and doing just the same thing, and thinking nothing of it. Having a ball, and NOT trying to suck the fun out. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #115 January 17, 2008 Quote You make it sound like a religion. It's just another way to have fun. Who cares if someone says the "invented" it and others agree with them. It's not like they are trying to charge people money to do it. Diablo cares a lot he invented the atmonauti and the wingsuit instructor years before and both were stolen by some army dudes and the italians. I swear he should have copywrited all documentation when he had the chance.. I'm never going to do another Atmonauti, I will still do it but I will call it Funarimonuati!!!! Just trying to keep any missplaced fun in its place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #116 January 17, 2008 Naw, I haven't invented a fucking thing.....I just try to "Flail With Style" and "Suck Less".BTW, I'm going to copy wright those terms so BTFU! ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ElJosh 0 #117 January 17, 2008 So is Atmonauti Relative Work ARW going to be at Nationals this year?~El Josh AKA Ruby DS #149 Yes I only have 3 jumps...it's the magic number dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #118 January 17, 2008 BTW, I'm going to copy wright those terms so BTFU! I love the way it sounds, kinda like the name of a ukrainian porn star. Furnarimonauti,..... say it with flair! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grips 0 #119 January 18, 2008 There is a video on Atmonauti website that has a girl with streamers attached to her wrists. Where/how does she put them before she deploys? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #120 January 18, 2008 Quote Prudes my assWe were "flocking" long before the "Atmonauti" dudes , and doing just the same thing, and thinking nothing of it. Having a ball, and NOT trying to suck the fun out. Funny how time changes attitudes. You should really take a peek back at what you said years ago when this thread was first started. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #121 January 18, 2008 Same point (i.e. nothing new under the sun), new attitude (more of a jerk about it). Shoulda seen me when Olav went around saying he "invented" freeflying and was going to trademark the term. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #122 January 18, 2008 Quote Shoulda seen me when Olav went around saying he "invented" freeflying and was going to trademark the term. I was pissed off about that too. I still see adverts for Olav videos that claim the term is trademarked. I checked the US patent office today. Nothing for "freeflying", but for "freefly" there was an attempt to trademark it, but it is dead. Yet it is not in Olav's name either: Quote Word Mark FREEFLY Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: skydiving accessories, skydiving clothing, Vladiball freefall toy. FIRST USE: 20000810. FIRST USE [...] Filing Date September 17, 2003 [...] Owner (APPLICANT) Kerry W. Vail INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES surfflite@mchsi.com 5832 E. Shiprock St. Apache Junction ARIZONA 85219 Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date October 2, 2004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #123 January 22, 2008 I like the picture of the month 10/04 where G is lounging on the back wing of some wingsuit. Anice! She was so stoked when Diablo showed her how to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vins 0 #124 March 4, 2008 Quote Quote I practis every weekend Atmonauti in Italy, in the home DZ of the inventors I guess the theory is, if people keep saying it, one day it must be true. What a joke. Hey Jp, I like this joke so much! wanna joke with me? In wikipedia it's write that you have invented Atmonauti... umm... ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmonauti You are very fun and beleve me, I like you. For this reason I want to play a game with you! Regarding your post above, effectively, saying Tiezzi is the inventor of angled flight, today many people think that it's true. Marco told me as he descovered occasionally the angles and he presented this technique for the first time and as he teached this technique to many professionals as Babylon and many others and now, saying any day this story I believe it. Do you really think that isn't true? What do you think about this story? Have you the proof that you did Atmonauti before Marco? Please help me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallfast69 3 #125 March 5, 2008 [reply In wikipedia it's write that you have invented Atmonauti... umm... ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmonauti Holy shit...that's funnyjon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
