Would you jump without your AAD

[BenediktDE 2]

"Depends on What type of jump"
I would jump without an AAD but would be more picky about what I do.
I am a beginner in Relative Work and jump with other beginners. Maybe I would prefer to do some solos whilst without AAD.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[Ron 10]

Wheres Kallend and his "I don't know anyone that uses an AAD to do riskier jumps?"

So far we have 24 of them.

I say if you will not do that jump without an AAD....You should just not do that jump at all.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[HeatherB 0]

My answer is "of course!"

I've jumped without my Cypres and will do so again when it needs its next check. I've jumped demo rigs without AAD's and I'm perfectly fine with doing that as well. I have my limits, but my limits aren't related to my Cypres. In general, I don't do big-ways because I don't care much for them. I wouldn't do a big-way with a bunch of newer jumpers because the risk of people plowing into eachother is a lot higher. I don't freefly because I don't have an interest in it. I don't do tube jumps because to me the risk isn't worth it. (I've heard too many accounts of people having prematures, grabbing cutaway or reserve handles, etc).

Why the hell would I want to go on a jump that I wouldn't do without an AAD anyhow??? ("Hey, this jump is riskier, but it's okay, I have an AAD!!")

[relyon 0]

I've never had an AAD in any of my gear, so yes, I'll jump without one.

Bob

[skymama 37]

I'm with Mary, I also say no. I made a promise to my kids that I would be as safe as I could be when I jump. Murphy's Law is always in the back of my mind...the one time I need it is going to be the one time I jumped without it.

Not jumping for the two weeks that it gets sent back is no big deal to me. There are other things I like to do that will keep me occupied during that time.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[nicknitro71 0]

Not on a 500 way but yes I jump with and without one.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[divnswoop 0]

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Not on a 500 way but yes I jump with and without one.

Well, it looks like your in my category with this...You and I are both "device dependent" because we choose not to do certain skydives without an AAD. Or at least that what several people in this thread think. Personally I don't think I'm device dependent nor do I think that doing AFF is over my head since I got my rating in 1996. I will not do AFF/tandems without an AAD. One is by law, the other is a personal choice....It's just not a black and white thing. I choose to jump with an AAD on AFF because it's an intelligent thing to do....NOT because I think AFF is over my head or too "risky". I personally know 3 people walking the earth today because of cypres.

[Fast 0]

Have jumped rigs w/o one. Have jumped with it turned off for various reasons. Will jump again if the situation presents itself.

Don't do things that put you in unsafe situations. I have one because it minimizes risk when things do go wrong but I try to keep myself out of them places to begin with.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[freeflygirlz 0]

I am AFF-Instructor and would not do AFF-jumps without AAD. You never know whats going to happen on an instructional jump.
I've been in the situation, that my AAD refused to work just before an AFF-jump. I used the gear of a friend the next few days for aFF, for freefly and everything else I used my gear without AAD.

[kallend 2,106]

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Wheres Kallend and his "I don't know anyone that uses an AAD to do riskier jumps?"

So far we have 24 of them.

I say if you will not do that jump without an AAD....You should just not do that jump at all.

Your interpretation is not the same as mine.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pilotdave 0]

I agree with you... "using an AAD ON riskier jumps" is not the same as "using an AAD TO DO riskier jumps." One is an intelligent choice, the other is not.

Dave

[Ron 10]

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I agree with you... "using an AAD ON riskier jumps" is not the same as "using an AAD TO DO riskier jumps." One is an intelligent choice, the other is not.

How do you know the difference?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nicknitro71 0]

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...You and I are both "device dependent" because we choose not to do certain skydives without an AAD.

I am not a bird so I am always device dependent: I always depend on my harness and my reserve (or BASE canopy) even though I know they can fail. I would not do a skydive without a parachute system, so I am very device dependent.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Wheres Kallend and his "I don't know anyone that uses an AAD to do riskier jumps?"

So far we have 24 of them.

I say if you will not do that jump without an AAD....You should just not do that jump at all.

I say, if you have a cypres, use it! We buy them as safety devices, we put them in our rigs and hope we never need them... but if that day comes and your shit is in Germany, then what was the point of having one to begin with.

So, in short, if you don't want to use a cypres, don't use one. But if you bought one in order to increase your safety in general OR on certain types of jumps, then you should seriously consider that again when you decide to jump without a cypres. I didn't buy one because I thought the cutter was pretty.

If cypres weren't available, i'd still jump. I would freefly, etc, just like I did when I didn't have a cypres. But, they are available, and i'll be damned if I invested in one so that someone may one day find my dead body without a cypres in my rig because something unexpected happened in freefall. Shit happens, plan for it!

-A

[pilotdave 0]

Ask yourself "Am I a dumbass about to make a skydive that I am clearly not ready for and might get someone else hurt?"

Don't think the AAD needs to enter the picture. If you answer yes to that question, the AAD isn't going to help. You'll still be a dumbass about to go on a skydive you aren't ready for and still might hurt someone else. If you answer no, then what's the problem? Use an AAD if you want or don't. Up to you.

This whole "risk threshold" thing just isn't working for me.

Dave

[Ron 10]

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If cypres weren't available, i'd still jump. I would freefly, etc, just like I did when I didn't have a cypres. But, they are available, and i'll be damned if I invested in one so that someone may one day find my dead body without a cypres in my rig because something unexpected happened in freefall. Shit happens, plan for it!

Then you would not be dependant and this would not effect you.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Ask yourself "Am I a dumbass about to make a skydive that I am clearly not ready for and might get someone else hurt?"

Don't think the AAD needs to enter the picture. If you answer yes to that question, the AAD isn't going to help. You'll still be a dumbass about to go on a skydive you aren't ready for and still might hurt someone else. If you answer no, then what's the problem? Use an AAD if you want or don't. Up to you.

This whole "risk threshold" thing just isn't working for me.

But what if you only would do the jump if you had an AAD? Then the AAD is the center of the issue.

If you would not do the jump without it due to the risk of the jump....Then why do it with one?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[pilotdave 0]

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But what if you only would do the jump if you had an AAD? Then the AAD is the center of the issue.

Being a dumbass is the same with or without an AAD. I agree with you that people shouldn't be dumbasses.

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If you would not do the jump without it due to the risk of the jump....Then why do it with one?

That depends on why you wouldn't do it without it.

In aircraft, some backup systems are required for IFR flight but not required for VFR. IFR is inherently more dangerous. Wouldn't we just be safer staying on the ground instead of flying IFR? YES! Wouldn't we be safer not doing bigway skydives and AFF instruction? YES!

Dave

[Ron 10]

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But what if you only would do the jump if you had an AAD? Then the AAD is the center of the issue.

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Being a dumbass is the same with or without an AAD. I agree with you that people shouldn't be dumbasses.

If you will allow yourself to be a dumbass because you have an AAD...then the AAD is the issue.

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That depends on why you wouldn't do it without it.

If you felt the AAD will make you safe...you are stupid. An AAD will NOT reduce the chances of something going wrong.

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In aircraft, some backup systems are required for IFR flight but not required for VFR. IFR is inherently more dangerous. Wouldn't we just be safer staying on the ground instead of flying IFR? YES! Wouldn't we be safer not doing bigway skydives and AFF instruction? YES!

OK, lets use Aviation.

Who is safer, the guy that will fly single engine IFR, or the guy that will not?

Having an IFR ticket will not make an engine out less likley.

Having an AAD will not reduce the risk of an Accident.

I have friends with 23,000 hours that will not fly single engine IFR if they can avoid it.

They are safer than a guy with an IFR ticket that will.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[pilotdave 0]

So he WILL fly IFR in a plane with a BACKUP engine??

He's engine reliant.

Just tell me, what is better about an AFF instructor that will do AFF jumps without an AAD? What should that instructor do to improve himself, assuming he REALLY BADLY wants to teach students?

Dave

[Ron 10]

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So he WILL fly IFR in a plane with a BACKUP engine??


He's engine reliant

Yes, but he will also admit it.

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Just tell me, what is better about an AFF instructor that will do AFF jumps without an AAD?

Nothing. He will in no way perform better.

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What should that instructor do to improve himself, assuming he REALLY BADLY wants to teach students?

There is nothing he can do...Its not about students, its not about skills.

It is about the simple fact that people will do more dangerous stuff with an AAD than without. It is a mindset. Why do a dangerous jump just becasue you think and AAD will save you?

Do you admit that an AAD will not reduce the chances of an Accident? It will not prevent an accident, it will not prevent you from being knocked out, it will not prevent you from being paralized, it will not prevent you from breaking your arm.

More on knocked out Really read this one...Its pretty good. The "Safe" skydivers were the ones that refused to go on that load.

None of these were prevented by a CYPRES. The deaths were prevented....But the ACCIDENT still happend.

Safe jumpers use their brains to prevent the accident, then ADD the AAD incase all hell breaks loose. Not go on dangerous dives since they have an AAD.

I really don't know how to say it better.

Choose your dives as if you have no AAD, then ADD one to be safe, don't use the AAD as a pass to do more dangerous stuff.

I have to go...I have AFF to do.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[pilotdave 0]

Ok, I agree with you. But if AAD dependence doesn't have any affect on an instructor, why is it a bad thing?

Dave

[Ron 10]

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Ok, I agree with you. But if AAD dependence doesn't have any affect on an instructor, why is it a bad thing?

Ok, I don't have an AFF right now.

AAD dependence CAN be a bad thing. It does not HAVE to be a bad thing.

If you use an AAD and do things with it that are more dangerous than you would without one...You are allowing an AAD to increase your risk.

It is exactly like driving more reckless, or in worse conditions if you have airbags in your car. You are not LESS *likely* to have an accident if you allow yourself to drive recklessly, or in poor conditions cause you have airbags...In fact you are MORE likely to have an accident. Yes, you are also more likely to *survive* the accident.

But, if by using the fact you have airbags you go out and driving in more dangerous conditions or more dangerous ways than if you did not have them, you are in fact being more dangerous,and INCREASING your risk. Not only to you, but others on the road.

Same with an AAD. If you allow yourself to make riskier jumps with an AAD that you would never consider without one...You are dependent on the AAD to keep you safe. And thats bad since the AAD will not reduce your chances of an accident at all.

So dependence is not necessarily bad....Depending on it so you can do more dangerous stuff IS bad.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jerryzflies 0]

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But what if you only would do the jump if you had an AAD? Then the AAD is the center of the issue.

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Being a dumbass is the same with or without an AAD. I agree with you that people shouldn't be dumbasses.

If you will allow yourself to be a dumbass because you have an AAD...then the AAD is the issue.

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That depends on why you wouldn't do it without it.

If you felt the AAD will make you safe...you are stupid. An AAD will NOT reduce the chances of something going wrong.

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In aircraft, some backup systems are required for IFR flight but not required for VFR. IFR is inherently more dangerous. Wouldn't we just be safer staying on the ground instead of flying IFR? YES! Wouldn't we be safer not doing bigway skydives and AFF instruction? YES!

OK, lets use Aviation.

Who is safer, the guy that will fly single engine IFR, or the guy that will not?

Having an IFR ticket will not make an engine out less likley.

Having an AAD will not reduce the risk of an Accident.

I have friends with 23,000 hours that will not fly single engine IFR if they can avoid it.

They are safer than a guy with an IFR ticket that will.

But is someone with an IFR ticket safer than someone without an IFR ticket in MVFR, when both are legal?

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[jerryzflies 0]

All you are saying is don;t go on dangerous dives. Being willing to do a dangerous dive without an AAD is NOT better than being willing to do a dangerous dive with an AAD.

In fact going on a high risk skydive with no AAD shows poor judgment, and a skydiver with poor judgment is an unsafe skydiver.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.