AndyMan 7 #76 April 17, 2007 QuoteN201RH 163 WIN WIN AVIATION INC was destroyed in 2000. http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21533&key=1 __ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #77 April 17, 2007 QuoteQuotethe long nose for extra bagage room (floats can have bagage compartments which would make that less necessary). I believe there is an aerodynamic reason for it. The floats protrude far forward and add a lot of vertical surface area. They would tend to move the aerodynamic center forward (causing yaw stability problems), so vertical fins are added to the horizontal stabilizer to counter that. I think the longer nose has the same affect as the floats, so they use the shorter nose on most float equipped models. (There are plenty of pics on the internet of long-nose float-equipped otters). I think the short nose from the -100 series was retained as an option for the -200 series, for float operators. Could be wrong though! Dave I thought the vertical fins helped maneuvering it when it was in the BOAT mode? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #78 April 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuotethe long nose for extra bagage room (floats can have bagage compartments which would make that less necessary). I believe there is an aerodynamic reason for it. The floats protrude far forward and add a lot of vertical surface area. They would tend to move the aerodynamic center forward (causing yaw stability problems), so vertical fins are added to the horizontal stabilizer to counter that. I think the longer nose has the same affect as the floats, so they use the shorter nose on most float equipped models. (There are plenty of pics on the internet of long-nose float-equipped otters). I think the short nose from the -100 series was retained as an option for the -200 series, for float operators. Could be wrong though! Dave I thought the vertical fins helped maneuvering it when it was in the BOAT mode? Water rudders on the floats do that. Floats compromise yaw stability in the air, so the additional vertical fin area is added to balance it out. The effect of the nose length is minor (but real).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #79 April 17, 2007 Sort of like "flags of convenience", many airplanes are registered in Delaware, etc. if that state charges less in taxes or has looser insurance requirements, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #80 April 17, 2007 Since Viking already has Parts Manufacturing Authority for dozens of high-wear components (door hinges, engine cowlings, etc.), they will probably just bolt those PMA components into new production TwOtters. Most of those PMA components are exact copies of DeHavilland parts and can be bolted onto 100 series Otters with a minimum of paperwork. Installing PMA parts is a no-brainer for federal bureaucrats (Transport Canada, FAA, etc.). On the other hand, modified parts must be accompanied by a pile of paperwork that exceeds the weight of the part or even the gross weight of the aircraft! Hee! Hee! For example, when Viking builds new replacement struts, the use the same dimensions and alloys as original DeHavilland components, and only update finish to newer, more corrosion-resistant paints. Even the new paint requires a new ton of paperwork. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jee 0 #81 April 17, 2007 You are missing 122PM. A series 100 owned by DZO Paul Illingworth that is flying now at Skydive San Marcos between Austin and San Antonio. It is serial number 15. Believed to be the oldest otter flying today I think. It is however a badass plane with a pair of recent -27's hanging on a 200 series wing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #82 April 17, 2007 N-Number Serial Number Name 227CS 27 FAYARD ENTERPRISES INC 71EC 37 EMERALD COAST AIR INC 10EA 199 EAGLE AIR TRANSPORT INC 30EA 191 EAGLE AIR TRANSPORT INC 123FX 200 FREEFALL EXPRESS 200DZ 112 MONTEREY BAY AERO SPORTSPLEX 201RH 163 WIN WIN AVIATION INC - Crashed 204BD 204 HILL LARRY 223AL 223 WIN WIN AVIATION INC 226CS 198 FAYARD ENTERPRISES INC 228YK 228 SKYDIVING PRODUCTIONS OVER TEXAS INC 301CL 221 WIN WIN AVIATION INC 321CY 211 JUMP RUN AVIATION LLC 40269 152 FREEFALL EXPRESS INC 719AS 139 SKYDIVING PORDUCTIONS OVER TEXAS INC 901ST 208 SKY TEAM AVIATION INC 204SA 402 AIRE EXPRESS LLC 208JE 557 ERIKSSON AVIATION LLC 708PV 489 PM LEASING INC 1022S 79 FAYARD ENTERPRISES INC 121PM 14 ONE PAPA MIKE CORPORATION 125PM 89 MILE HI SKYDIVERS INC 125SA 104 PM LEASING INC 128WJ 128 HILL LAWRENCE E 129PM 114 FREEFALL EXPRESS INC 166DH 66 FREEFALL EXPRESS INC 203E 53 ADVENTURE AVIATION LLC 202EH 48 SKYDIVE FACTORY INC 203E 53 ADVENTURE AVIATION LLC 204EH 61 SKYDIVE FACTORY INC 220EA 190 EAGLE AIR TRANSPORT INC 24HV 109 VERTICAL AIR INC 3434 193 AEROHIO AVIATION LLC - Crashed 3PY 767 WESTWIND AIR LLC 711AS 202 SKYDIVING PRODUCTIONS OVER TEXAS INC 901BS 160 RAEFORD AVIATION INC 923MA 168 SPEEDSTAR EXPRESS LLC 924MA 216 PARA DROP 926MA 133 SPEED STAR EXPRESS LLC 169BA 103 DESERT SAND AIRCRAFT LEASING CO INC 203SF 151 DESERT SAND AIRCRAFT LEASING COMPANY INC 690MF 121 DESERT SAND AIRCRAFT LEASING CO INC 70551 656 DESERT SAND AIRCRAFT LEASING CO INC 122PM 15 ILLINGWORTH PAUL J 70464 555 UNITED STATES AIR FORCE 70465 554 UNITED STATES AIR FORCE 52FW 52 KAPOWSIN AIR SPORTS LTD 186AL 186 13500 AIR EXPRESS LLC 48 Otters registered, 46 thought to be still flying.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #83 August 6, 2007 What about the fuel tanks? Someone who I would have thought should know said something about rules that forbid the production of new planes with tanks in the belly. Are there still planes being built with fuel tanks in the belly?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #84 August 6, 2007 Aircraft certification is pretty complicated... new versions of older designs can follow the rules that were in place when the original version was certified. The manufacturer has to work with the FAA to determine what certification basis they will be using. There are tons of aircraft in production now that could not be certified if they were designed today. I'd bet that most aircraft in production now don't meet the latest and greatest standards. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #85 August 6, 2007 Quote this one has the best immatriculation ever D-IVERwww.airliners.net/open.file/0757516/M/ edited to change Norway to Finland.. Damm Scandinavians... I'm sire I've seen T-O in Empuria with the reg D-EATHRemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #86 August 7, 2007 Quote The US Forest Service also uses Otters for Smoke Jumpers. They own 3 and have 3 on contract according to one of my buddies, I thought they had all been replaced with Sherpas. They also have a turbine DC-3 in McCall I am not sure about the BLM, they may also have otters for smoke jumpers. In 1994 I was on a fire assignment in Alaska and I flew in an Otter used for crew transport. It was not set up for jumping and had seats. I saw several like this in Anchorage. http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/smokejumpers/aircraft.html I have tour'd the Smoke Jumpers base in McCall Idaho as well and I have been in the Otter they use for jumping in that area.....the DC3 too. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #87 August 7, 2007 and doesnt crosskeys have two otters but missing some engines (edited so I stop recieving PMS for my tounge in cheekedness) Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #88 August 7, 2007 If there's only that many in the US then I'm pretty sure that the Desert Sands otters are used to fly tourist to Monument Valley Utah. I ws there for school business a few years ago and saw three of them parked on the dirt strip out there, and was sick at the waste of capacity. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Professor 0 #89 August 7, 2007 QuoteIf there's only that many in the US then I'm pretty sure that the Desert Sands otters are used to fly tourist to Monument Valley Utah. I ws there for school business a few years ago and saw three of them parked on the dirt strip out there, and was sick at the waste of capacity. -Blind At least 3 of those a/c, BA, MF, and SF, have been jump aircraft at skydive spaceland within the last couple years. BA was at skyfest being jumped under a month ago. I don't recall ever seeing 70551, though. Ted Like a giddy school girl. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #90 July 28, 2009 interesting bit on CBC tonight about the twin otter and Viking Air... http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/special_feature/flight_into_history/the_indispensable_otter.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #91 July 28, 2009 http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/special_feature/flight_into_history/the_indispensable_otter.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
totter 2 #92 July 28, 2009 QuoteIn Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the long nose for extra bagage room (floats can have bagage compartments which would make that less necessary). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe there is an aerodynamic reason for it. The floats protrude far forward and add a lot of vertical surface area. They would tend to move the aerodynamic center forward (causing yaw stability problems), so vertical fins are added to the horizontal stabilizer to counter that. I think the longer nose has the same affect as the floats, so they use the shorter nose on most float equipped models. (There are plenty of pics on the internet of long-nose float-equipped otters). I think the short nose from the -100 series was retained as an option for the -200 series, for float operators. Could be wrong though! Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I thought the vertical fins helped maneuvering it when it was in the BOAT mode? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Water rudders on the floats do that. Floats compromise yaw stability in the air, so the additional vertical fin area is added to balance it out. The effect of the nose length is minor (but real). There are two sets of floats that are certified for install on the Twin Otter, Whip Air 13000 & CAP Floats. The CAP floats were designed as part of the Original Certification of the aircraft, i.e. -100s short nose. You can install the CAP floats on a 300 series, but you need to install the short nose because that's how they were certified. The Whip Air 13000 were STCd to be installed on either long or short nose. The Whips also have a higher floatation rating, so the extra weight out front will not make the bows dig under water. A Twin Otter on floats does not use water rudders. It uses differential thrust. The Whip install adds an 18" stall bar on the outer part of the RH wing, so that both wings stall evenly. On the Rudder Servo tab the conecting rod length was changed to assist with yaw and the aircraft retains the Sea Fins on the horizontal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #93 July 28, 2009 QuoteSomeone who I would have thought should know said something about rules that forbid the production of new planes with tanks in the belly. On what kind of plane? There are a lot of planes with center or belly tanks in production.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #94 July 28, 2009 QuoteQuoteSomeone who I would have thought should know said something about rules that forbid the production of new planes with tanks in the belly. On what kind of plane? There are a lot of planes with center or belly tanks in production. The explanation I got went something like this: Because the Otter is already approved, and did not lose that status just because they quit making them for a while, they are allowed to begin producing them again in the original approved designs. However, a newly designed planed, never before approved or built, would not get approval if it had belly tanks. I got that from a very experienced Otter pilot a couple years back when word first came out that they would be building them again. So is there anything official on the topic? When was the last time a newly designed plane with belly tanks was approved for production and/or to fly?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lawdog1 0 #95 July 28, 2009 The Tecumseh Otter is on lease from Spaceland, as is the Otter at Midwest Freefall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #96 July 30, 2009 QuoteThe Whip install adds an 18" stall bar on the outer part of the RH wing, so that both wings stall evenly. On the Rudder Servo tab the conecting rod length was changed to assist with yaw and the aircraft retains the Sea Fins on the horizontal. I assume the floats are completely symmetrical. Or is that incorrect? If so then why would the RH wing not stall at the same point and need this 18" stall bar? I'm no pilot but I am always curious about these things that fly (or don't). -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #97 July 30, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe Whip install adds an 18" stall bar on the outer part of the RH wing, so that both wings stall evenly. On the Rudder Servo tab the conecting rod length was changed to assist with yaw and the aircraft retains the Sea Fins on the horizontal. I assume the floats are completely symmetrical. Or is that incorrect? If so then why would the RH wing not stall at the same point and need this 18" stall bar? I'm no pilot but I am always curious about these things that fly (or don't). -Michael The engines are not mirror images. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #98 July 30, 2009 The left wing probably stalls first because of assymetrical airflow, if both propellers turn in the same direction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #99 July 30, 2009 Lots of jet-powered airliners have fuel tanks in their bellies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
totter 2 #100 July 30, 2009 QuoteThe left wing probably stalls first because of assymetrical airflow, if both propellers turn in the same direction. That's correct. The thing that make this instance different from a wheeled Twin is the floats. You just added more lifting surface to the aircraft that is affected by the airflow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
