Attitudes on lending smaller canopies?

[pchapman 279]

This isn't a particularly important post; it's just something I'm curious about -- a question with a whole lot of opinion thrown in. While downsizing is often discussed, I can't recall hearing much about attitudes towards the role of the borrowed canopy.


What are the attitudes today on lending people canopies smaller than they normally fly, whether to help them move to an even smaller canopy they bought, or just to fly for a few jumps to gain experience?


BORROWED CANOPIES FOR DOWNSIZING:
In some sort of ideal world we might all buy a canopy one size smaller than the old one, and jump it for a whole season before going down one more size. But in reality people don't have the money for that, and many skydivers aren't actually going to be in the sport "forever". So they want to have something small and zippy sooner than ideal.

It is common for someone to buy a canopy a couple sizes smaller than they now fly (especially at the novice level), but before they fly it, they put 10 jumps on a canopy half way in between what they now fly and what they just bought.

So borrowing a canopy is a great way to make a more gradual progression in canopy size without spending huge amounts of time and money buying canopies. On the other hand, it can be seen as a way to downsize too quickly. Doing 10 jumps on a borrowed canopy and being able to flare it in normal conditions, doesn't mean that the next size down is what one should be flying from then on.

BORROWED CANOPIES FOR VARIETY:
Canopies may also be borrowed to get experience with different styles of canopies and flight habits, to become a more well rounded and aware skydiver.

"OCCASIONAL DOWNSIZING" or BORROWED CANOPIES FOR A BIT OF FUN & EXPERIENCE:
One reason for borrowing smaller canopies, that I like, is to get a taste of a smaller canopy, without having to fly that canopy all the time.

Jumping the smaller canopy isn't being used to downsize immediately thereafter. The jumper gets a bit of practice on the smaller canopy without having to deal with it in everyday conditions, day after day, on every jump. The canopy may be more likely to be treated with extra respect, to be flown carefully, with less aggressive landing approaches. Sometimes it seems that the first jumps on a canopy are safer than the later ones, when the jumper agressively starts to "try stuff" or assumes they have the canopy mastered.

There is still the caveat that the jumper should best be able to handle their larger canopy proficiently first -- all the stuff about emergency flare turns etc.

Using a smaller canopy may increase the risk per jump for the skydiver, but if they only borrow the smaller canopy a few times, the per-year risk is still much lower than if they bought that canopy.

(The per-year risk issue is interesting: If an experienced jumper chastises a newbie that the newbie is 10 times more likely to hurt themselves on any given landing, the newbie might be able to claim, "Okay, you do 200 swoops a year, I do 20. So our risk is the same. If I start jumping a lot more, then I'll make changes.")

So to me it feels like borrowing smaller canopies is a way to get a little extra excitement and challenge, and learn some skills on the smaller canopy, without giving up one's everyday bigger canopy.

Jumping a smaller canopy a few times may give a jumper more respect for the canopy, some actual experience as to why not to buy such a canopy, rather than simply having to listen to the skygods tell him he's not ready. (Although the emergency flare turn etc. flight drills are a good way of giving the jumper some of that experience too.) On the other hand, jumping a canopy a few times may make the jumper want it even more.

Is it sometimes seen as too much of a risk to let people do occasional, temporary downsizing, before they are good and ready? Or is it still an acceptable practice? Rigid regulations on canopy wingload and downsizing would reduce the frequency of occasional downsizing.

My bias is having downsized in the old days, early 1990s, where there was little downsize progression theory. While I only owned a big F-111 accuracy canopy, I borrowed small stuff from friends from time to time. So I got to fly a Jonathon 92 at 1.85 wing loading, when I had 200 jumps, on a low wind day. My downsize experience was that I had done 3 or 4 jumps on each of a 160 ZP, 135 Sabre, 120 Sabre, and 120 Stiletto & Jedei. There seemed to be no general feeling in those days that the person who lent the 92 to me had done anything wrong. If they wanted to risk grass stains on the rig, fine.

In any case, I do like that nowadays there is much more emphasis on actually teaching people how to fly smaller canopies well.

[grue 1]

While I cannot speak for others, of course, I recently did a pretty drastic downsize, courtesy of my instructor. My first six jumps were on a 290sqft Skymaster student rig, 5 of which I stood up (I slipped on the other ), and when I showed up on Sunday, it was decided I was ready to go down. I was rather surprised when he brought over a 230 sqft rig, since that's about a 1:1 wingload for me. He said that since the wind was very light, and I'd be the only person in the air at any given time, the conditions were good to try it, if I wanted to, but if I wasn't comfortable, then it was ok not to jump it.

Well, turns out conditions were good, and I stood up all three landings. Doesn't mean I'll necessarily use the 230 next time I go up if the winds are higher, but it lets me know I -can- fly the 230 with no problems under ideal conditions

Just my take on the whole thing

cavete terrae.

[MarkM 0]

Quote

Jumping a smaller canopy a few times may give a jumper more respect for the canopy, some actual experience as to why not to buy such a canopy, rather than simply having to listen to the skygods tell him he's not ready.

I haven't jumped anything smaller than my 150, so I wouldn't be able to tell you if putting me under a 130 would scare the crap out of me or not. But the most dangerous parts of this sport to me seem to be those situations where everything feels like you're in control, you can handle it, then Something Bad happens and things get out of control faster than you can manage at your skill level.

So if I did try a 130, landed it fine a few times and it didn't seem that dangerous to me, I'd likely still be in over my head when something went wrong.

[D22369 0]

What are the attitudes today on lending people canopies smaller than they normally fly, whether to help them move to an even smaller canopy they bought, or just to fly for a few jumps to gain experience?

Quote

For me to loan my canopy for someone to fly - I have to be absolutely convinced that they have the skills to fly it safely, my canopy in todays market is considered sloowww, but is only rated that because the benchmark has raised so high.


In any case, I do like that nowadays there is much more emphasis on actually teaching people how to fly smaller canopies well

You and me both
Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

In some sort of ideal world we might all buy a canopy one size smaller than the old one, and jump it for a whole season before going down one more size. But in reality people don't have the money for that,

All but one of my mains cost me less than $1/jump to own; the exception might have been my Batwing at $600 to buy $350 to sell after 150-200 jumps because I sold it to a rigless friend for a screaming deal.

Lightly used canopies purchased from private parties at reasonable prices depreciate under $1/jump. I've seen people buy Spectres with a few hundred jumps for $950, make a hundred plus jumps, and sell them for $850 (Cost: < $1/jump). Heavily used canopies can cost even less per jump. You could buy a old Stiletto for $350 and get the same back after a couple hundred jumps (Cost: $0/jump).

You can even get paid for jumping a canopy by having a little patience buying and selling.

Quote

So borrowing a canopy is a great way to make a more gradual progression in canopy size without spending huge amounts of time and money buying canopies.

Femur, pelvis, tibia, fibia, scaphoid, coccyx, sacrum, cervical vertibra, lumbar vertibra. These are a few of the bones I've seen broken. The likelyhood of those incidents goes down when you defer down-sizing until you've made more than the few jumps you can on a borrowed canopy or a few dozen on a demo.

While accidents under big parachutes are usually less severe than those under small ones people still get broken. A little prudence (you could buy a parachute and sell it after a few months) should reduce the risk for that.

Quote

While I only owned a big F-111 accuracy canopy, I borrowed small stuff from friends from time to time. So I got to fly a Jonathon 92 at 1.85 wing loading, when I had 200 jumps, on a low wind day. My downsize experience was that I had done 3 or 4 jumps on each of a 160 ZP, 135 Sabre, 120 Sabre, and 120 Stiletto & Jedei.

While I survived trying an Extreme FX @ 1.9 pounds/square foot at 500 jumps and change I've seen other people with more experience break themselves the first time they tried a canopy at lower wing loadings. I wouldn't recommend it or loan my 105 out to anyone not already jumping parachutes that size.