phoenixlpr 0 #1 June 16, 2009 Has anyone got any experience of lightning strike mid-air under canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 June 16, 2009 No, but I imagine it would be a shocking experience.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 June 16, 2009 I would imagine that a lightning strike of a canopy would pretty much vaporize a good section of it and the lines. My guess is you'd have to be lucky to survive at all even if the lightning itself didn't kill you directly.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficus 0 #4 June 16, 2009 Ask a CRWdog, from what I understand they are hit by Lightnings on a regular basis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #5 June 17, 2009 Quote Ask a CRWdog, from what I understand they are hit by Lightnings on a regular basis. Yuck! Yuck! I hear getting caught in a Storm is also dangerous.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpsteve 0 #6 June 17, 2009 Can't find any stories about someone gettting hit under canopy but I think it could definitely happen. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=818728;search_string=lightning;#818728 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Couloirman 0 #7 June 17, 2009 we were just talking about this the other day when people were going up even though we could clearly hear thunder close by. Someone on the load said not to worry because you are not grounded so absolutely NOTHING would happen. I have a seriously hard time believing this. At the least it could set up some kind of circuit between the metal on your rig and either a shirt thats soaked through to your body, or altimeter, or anything. This has to have happened before, maybe a paraglider thermalling who couldn't get down in time with really strong updrafts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #8 June 17, 2009 >Someone on the load said not to worry because you are not grounded >so absolutely NOTHING would happen. Aircraft aren't grounded. They get hit all the time. >At the least it could set up some kind of circuit between the metal on >your rig and either a shirt thats soaked through to your body, or altimeter, >or anything. You don't need to be a good conductor. All you need to be is a better conductor than air, which everyone is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadbug 0 #9 June 17, 2009 Why would you be jumping in a area where lightning is present? Doug Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #10 June 17, 2009 >Why would you be jumping in a area where lightning is present? Normally you wouldn't be. But I've jumped a few times too close to storms (accidentally.) Closest I've been from lightning is about 2 miles, which was too close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bam-bam 0 #11 June 17, 2009 That reminds me of an electric round I once did at Skydive Waycross any of you survivors still out there Holla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #12 June 17, 2009 [replyNormally you wouldn't be. But I've jumped a few times too close to storms (accidentally.) Closest I've been from lightning is about 2 miles, which was too close. Chasing a novice out of a C182 one day in Utah, we landed in the pouring rain and gusting winds. She said "On exit, it was so cool. I looked up as you two were diving out of the plane, and there was lightning all across the sky!" Yikes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #13 June 18, 2009 Quote>Someone on the load said not to worry because you are not grounded >so absolutely NOTHING would happen. Aircraft aren't grounded. They get hit all the time. >At the least it could set up some kind of circuit between the metal on >your rig and either a shirt thats soaked through to your body, or altimeter, >or anything. You don't need to be a good conductor. All you need to be is a better conductor than air, which everyone is. any idea what the behavior in the ocean is? I surfaced from a night dive in Thailand (was perfectly nice when I descended) to find a fairly intense lightning storm all around. We sat in it for 5 or 10 minutes before the boat came to fetch us. It was a really nice view, but not sure I'd choose to sit in it with an exposed metal first stage attached to a AL tank. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #14 June 18, 2009 Quote Quote Ask a CRWdog, from what I understand they are hit by Lightnings on a regular basis. Yuck! Yuck! I hear getting caught in a Storm is also dangerous. Well, I deliberately jumped with a Storm....and a few times at that. It was quite fun. (not a bad 7-cell) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #15 June 18, 2009 How exactly are you going to get hit by lightning under canopy? You aren't grounded to anything. Now if lightning hit something on the ground and just happened to arc through you, that would make more sense, but that would decrease the probability of getting hit to almost impossible. Not that I know what the hell I'm talking about, but I'm pretty sure you have to be grounded to something for lightning to be "attracted" to you and therefore "hit" you.Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #16 June 18, 2009 QuoteNot that I know what the hell I'm talking about . . . There's your answer right there; you don't. Trade the 747 in this video for a skydiver. It's the exact same thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDTDt2NZLmM The plane/rocket/skydiver helps to facilitate the path of the lightning strike from ground to object to cloud.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #17 June 18, 2009 QuoteHow exactly are you going to get hit by lightning under canopy? You aren't grounded to anything. BillV already addressed this. The lightning wants to get from the cloud to the ground and it'll go the path of least resistance. You conduct better than the air around you.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Distabled 0 #18 June 18, 2009 I think that this would be highly unlikely. Aircraft get hit because they pic up and hold a lot of static electricity. They do have 'static wicks' off the tips of all control surfaces that help discharge this + build up back into the air. It normally works fine. A skydiver would need to pick up charge and store it and we just are not that good at storing charge. We are not in freefall long enough and not going fast enough under canopy to build up a charge. Moments before the lightning discharges from a cloud, the air is ionized from the cloud to the surface and when this connection takes place it gives a path for the charge to discharge through. What actually happens with an aircraft is it take the place of the ground. The lightning can hit the plane but is not absorbed by the plane and still needs to find an earth hence it jumps out of the aircraft and heads to ground. We will just never be an attractive earth for a cloud with billions of amps fready to rock. Those little bits of metal on our 3rings etc mean stuff all to a whopping great cumulonimbus cloud. Even in the cloud there are negative areas that the charge jumps to. While under canopy, you should NEVER fly under the base or close to the base of a towering Cumulus cloud. In these clouds are thousands of tonnes of water and warm air rising up to 15-20000 feet. When all that moist air gets up there and reaches dew point, BOOM big rain drops are formed and latent heat is released into the water drops. Down come those big ass drops, and down comes the now much colder dense air that held that moisture, tonnes and tonnes of water and air are now rushing to the ground at high speed and if you are under the cloud when this happens you will be taken down with it and slammed into the deck. It is called a micro burst or wind shear. It has taken down big jet airliners in the past and it will take you and your Icarus straight into the dirt. Hail is also a possibility if you fly under the anvil of the cloud top. I think that is why we say "Blue Skies!" DGet busy living or get busy dying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #19 June 18, 2009 > Aircraft get hit because they pic up and hold a lot of static electricity. No, they get hit because before a lightning strike, a significant E-field builds up. Once it exceeds the local ionization gradient of air, the leader bolt begins. If there is anything conductive in the area the field is building in, it will distort the field - and 99% of the time that means that there will be a local gradient that's stronger near the conductive object. This tends to attact the leader. Once the leader is established, the return strokes tend to follow the same path. Note that most large aircraft nowadays have static wicks, which greatly reduces static charge (primarily for instrument accuracy.) They still get hit on average once a year. That's one strike per aircraft per year, not one strike anywhere per year. >A skydiver would need to pick up charge and store it and we just are not >that good at storing charge. We just have to be conductive - which, as bags of salt water, we unfortunately are. >What actually happens with an aircraft is it take the place of the ground. >The lightning can hit the plane but is not absorbed by the plane and still >needs to find an earth hence it jumps out of the aircraft and heads to >ground. Well, no. The aircraft is just another part of the leader, which is itself a conductive channel from the cloud to ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #20 June 19, 2009 QuoteQuoteNot that I know what the hell I'm talking about . . . There's your answer right there; you don't. Trade the 747 in this video for a skydiver. It's the exact same thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDTDt2NZLmM The plane/rocket/skydiver helps to facilitate the path of the lightning strike from ground to object to cloud. A 747 is made of a hell of a lot of metal, aluminum (or whichever) and who knows what. I'm sure that makes a difference. A skydiver might can be hit by lightning in the air, but the fact that a 747 is comprised of what it is, doesn't make it a good comparison at all. I don't know about you but I'm also only 5'8" rather than 231'-250'. There's just too many factors against using a 747 as an example. Either way, if you're jumping in or near a storm; what the hell do you expect?Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #21 June 19, 2009 This happened in 2007 to a paraglider pilot with fatal results. A pilot called He Zhongpin was sucked up to 19000 feet and got hit. I don't think it's guaranteed to be fatal however a direct lightning strike is very bad and you have no protection under canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #22 June 19, 2009 Quote A skydiver might can be hit by lightning in the air, but the fact that a 747 is comprised of what it is, doesn't make it a good comparison at all. I don't know about you but I'm also only 5'8" rather than 231'-250'. There's just too many factors against using a 747 as an example. Either way, if you're jumping in or near a storm; what the hell do you expect? Are you being argumentative for the hell of it??? We conduct a charge better than air. So does a 747, a golden condor, and Marvin the Martian's space ship. It doesn't really matter what you compare us to, the point is that we are more conductive than air. Unfortunately our skin doesn't have as nice of a faraday cage effect compared to the metal aircraft skin. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
