Your opinion on the Lodi hitting the tail incident

[mrbiceps 0]

There has been alot of banter about the Lodi incident where a novice jumper hit the tail after exit because he jumped up and the pilot had not powered down therefore leaving the tail dangerously low. Whats your opinion? vote now

[MajorDad 0]

This is hitting litigation in the states and the lawyers troll this site.

You want a poll of skydivers assigning blame to one party, the other or both?

Lets not feed the machine, there are plenty of ambulance chasers doing it already......

Major Dad
CSPA D-579

[likestojump 3]

according to numerous reports he was told more than once not to jump up.
jumping out of airplanes was not something he MUST do - it was something he WANTED to do.

Thus I conclude "he made the choices, he paid the price".

Any more people wanting to spit in Darwin's face and assign blame to others ?

[headoverheels 333]

You left off the choice: "the jumper should pay for the new tail for the 99"

[diablopilot 2]

Both parties are 100% at fault for creating a hazardous situation.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 3,064]

The jumper should have exited without jumping up. Other jumpers should have bugged him to exit correctly. The pilot should have configured for exit.

[chrismgtis 0]

If US Airways told you not to unbuckle your seat belt and you did and got injured during turbulence and broke your neck, would you sue US Airways?

Personally, in pretty much all iffy cases I've heard about if I was the person doing the suing, I'd probably be feeling like a complete idiot instead and be afraid to show my face for a while.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[billvon 3,064]

>If US Airways told you not to unbuckle your seat belt and you did and got
>injured during turbulence and broke your neck, would you sue US Airways?

Nope. But if US Airways told you to "watch your step" on exit, and then started taxiing while you were walking down the stairs, and you fell and broke your leg - perhaps a talk with the pilot would be in order, even if you were told to "watch your step."

[DSE 5]

your poll is leading.
The jumper wasn't a "novice."
By every standard the media and our sport applies, he was an "experienced" jumper with jump numbers somewhere between 100 and 200 jumps.

[mrbiceps 0]

well i have done 166 jumps and consider myself very much a novice.

[DSE 5]

Until very recently, a skydiver with 200 jumps was considered an "expert."
By the merit of comparison, I consider myself a novice too. Yet I have 10 times the jumps you do.
Stated again, by all standards applied by the media and the general population of participants of our sport, he is an "experienced" skydiver, certainly not a novice.
In any event, I feel your poll is leading (or misleading) by the application of a subjective descriptor in only that one option. The other options contain no such definition.

[Baksteen 84]

Option six:
I wasn't there so all information I have is hearsay.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[fasted3 0]

Option 7: It doesn't matter. He should not sue regardless.

A whole other issue, I know, but that feeling is fueling a lot of the debate about this case, I think.

I thought this was the agreement I made every time I've signed a waiver.
This sport is too small to take hits like this. I feel his lawsuit is saying, "I'll get mine and the hell with all of you."

Option 8: He's an asshole.

But what do I know?

[pinkfairy 0]

It would have been safer in the plane. I thought everybody knew that.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[Andy9o8 2]

Option 9: Who needs a third thread about this? Let's have cookies.

[feuergnom 29]

option 10: If you don't have anything substantial to say of your own, create a poll

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

By every standard the media and our sport applies, he was an "experienced" jumper with jump numbers somewhere between 100 and 200 jumps.

I think it's clear the jumper had no excuse for being a dumbass.

What I'm trying to figure out, is why the same shouldn't be said of the pilot.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[yoink 321]

Quote

This is hitting litigation in the states and the lawyers troll this site.

You want a poll of skydivers assigning blame to one party, the other or both?

Lets not feed the machine, there are plenty of ambulance chasers doing it already......

+1

There was a piece on the UK News recently about the courts thinking of accepting posts written on YouTube by self confessed 'musicians' on the Satriani vs Coldplay case that's ongoing as 'Expert Testimony'.

You can bet that if those posts are accepted, then posts from here certainly will be too, where real names, qualifications and jump numbers are visable...

Think before posting.


Option 69: Lets all get together and throw the ambulance chasers out of aircraft!

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Quote

By every standard the media and our sport applies, he was an "experienced" jumper with jump numbers somewhere between 100 and 200 jumps.

I think it's clear the jumper had no excuse for being a dumbass.

What I'm trying to figure out, is why the same shouldn't be said of the pilot.

The same should.
What I don't understand is why the OP needed to start a 3rd thread on this, as these points have already been made and discussed thoroughly in Threads #1 and #2.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Option 69: Lets all get together and throw the ambulance chasers out of aircraft!

I was once picked up and thrown out of the back of a Skyvan. That was cool as shit!

[davelepka 4]

Quote

The jumper should have exited without jumping up. Other jumpers should have bugged him to exit correctly. The pilot should have configured for exit.

On your first point, I agree, the jumper should have performed a proper exit for the conditions.


On the second point, I agree, and according to some reports, the other jumpers mentioned this both on the ground and in the plane.

On your thrid point, in this specific case, I disagree. The pilot did exactly what he said he was going to do.

The jumpers boarded the plane with an expectation of performance from the pilot, and the pilot followed suit and performed as expected. The no-cut, climbing jump run for the low pass was the SOP at Lodi.

The pilot boarded the plane with an expectation of performance from the jumpers, and one of them failed to perform as expected. This jumper had proir knowledge of the SOP for the low pass, and that a specific type of exit was required to maintain safety.

It's no secret that a cut and lowering of the nose would have created a different circumstance for exiting the AC, but if given proir notice of the AC configuration and the performance required to exit safely in that configuration, the responsibility falls to the jumper to perform as required, or decline to exit on that pass.

Helicopter jumps are a great example. You cannot exit a helo by launching yourself straight up off the skid with all of your might. In order to avoid hitting a rotor blade, you need to exit in a certain way. Even with this hazzard, we continue to jump helicopters, we just do so with an expectation of performance from the jumper.

[crashtested 0]

I have to agree with this, how many times do you have to tell somone.

Darwin wins again!!

And when he wins, we all win

[topdocker 0]

Dave!

That's probably the best reply on any of the three threads on this incident. It gives me hope that if I read long enough, I can fin intelligent, cogent reasoning. Remove all the he said/she said stuff, all the emotional rants from those who dislike a person involved and get to crux of the situation.

This will probably get deleted by the mod.

top

Jump more, post less!

[BDashe 0]

Quote

>If US Airways told you not to unbuckle your seat belt and you did and got
>injured during turbulence and broke your neck, would you sue US Airways?

Nope. But if US Airways told you to "watch your step" on exit, and then started taxiing while you were walking down the stairs, and you fell and broke your leg - perhaps a talk with the pilot would be in order, even if you were told to "watch your step."

Bill, you and your wildly innaccurate analogies to support your equally wild and bias viewpoint(s) never cease to amaze me. Thank you, yet again, for some excellent entertainment.

I can't wait to have a beer with you someday, I have a feeling we'll both be cracking up.

So there I was...

Making friends and playing nice since 1983

[yoink 321]

Quote

Quote

Option 69: Lets all get together and throw the ambulance chasers out of aircraft!

I was once picked up and thrown out of the back of a Skyvan. That was cool as shit!

I was kicked backwards out of one for my unstable exit on SL progression... Like a hardcore version of the thrown exit.