MakeItHappen 15 #26 April 13, 2005 Quote I am amazed that the 'tourist' bit has provoked the most response. I did not make that one up, but stole it from someone. I will not give out the credit now because it is controversial. The person can claim credit. The person is reading this forum and an active jumper. I have an update on this. 'The person' has come forward - well sort of. 'The person' emailed me and admonished me: Quote"Jeeze Jan haven't you figured out yet that tourists HATE being called tourists?" I guess I did not know that. Then there was: Quote And no, I'm not going to respond on dz.com. It would be like throwing bloody meat into a pool full of piranhas.. However--just to stir the pot--you are welcome to cut and paste this email and post it on my (unnamed) behalf if you want to rile them up a wee bit more... The rest of the email went like this: Quote"I do notice though that it's only the tourists who protest. The long-timers agree... I had a former Airspeed member once get in my face on the tourist quote. There he was, a national champion--in less than 10 years! How could I call him a tourist? I don't recollect his name--he's since left the sport.... People confuse goals achieved in a short time with longevity all too often." I have permission to post the email - sans identifiable information of 'the person'. Ok - so some of my friends may be spineless or lack courage or it may be that they do not know how to handle internet posts deftly and ask me to be their voice. I'm just a puppet after all. ;) It is a malleable relationship. For Kallend Quote No way of telling. Some people learn MUCH more quickly than others, and some never learn much at all. Skydiving is not like physics where you can read through a bunch of books and understand the subject. Your comments on a different thread about a FJS knowing about an AAD indicate that you do not understand that there are 'MUST knows' in this sport and 'nice to knows'. IOW, a FJS does not need to know how to operate and AAD or even what its operational parameters are. An experienced jumper does need to know these things. Unlike physics, skydiving has a way of giving people operational rules or guidelines without having to understand the underlying physics principles. A jumper knows that you need to cutaway and pull reserve for a malfunction by a certain altitude, but does not need to know the lift and drag coefficients of the malfunctioned parachute system in order to compute how quickly they may arrive at their decision altitude. Kallend, I have a suggestion for you. Teach a 'Physics for Jocks' class - no equations allowed. I did this at Woodland College a few years back. I was amazed at how much physics could be taught without equations. Feynman was a master at explaining complicated physics in simple terms. . .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #27 April 13, 2005 QuoteI do notice though that it's only the tourists who protest. Maybe so, but no-one likes to be patronised by their elders. Patronising people makes them stop listening to you, and then they stop learning as smartly as they could. Then some of them die. I'm also not a big fan of cliques; I don't think terminology that advocates divisiveness ("us and them") is to be encouraged. Hence my distaste for 'tourist'. And 'whuffo'. edited to add: I'm not getting all bent out of shape about this; 'tis just a point I felt needed making. QuoteFeynman was a master at explaining complicated physics in simple terms. On that, we agree. He understood the principles behind his work in a way that few ever do. This is a great book about the man (and the ladies ) behind the physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #28 April 13, 2005 QuotePS: I can see the experience debate for over/under 3 years. Fighting over 10 seems like generational snobbery. Its not snobbery...Its an observation. How many FJC students come back? You could call most of them "Only Jump Students" and you would be correct most of the time. I expect people to quit at anytime till they get 1,000 jumps. Look at the numbers....We have 34000 or so members...I have no idea how many members we have HAD. But we only have about 7,000 in the entire history of the USPA that have made 1,000 jumps. Only 2500 that have made 2,000 jumps. Less than 100 that have made 8,000 jumps. We have around 45,000 "A's" in the history of the sport, but only 29,000 "D's"...amost half. Anyone wanna guess how many people do one jump and never come back? Years in the sport is another example...I have no numbers to state how many have been in the sport 10 years, but just ask around the DZ next weekend, and you will get a good idea. The USPA released a report once that the average jumper stays int he sport 3 years. That makes it very realistic to claim that most are not here for the long haul. But most newbies think they will jump forever, and refuse to think otherwise. So they take anything that does not fit into their mindset as an insult. Its not, but they will take it as one."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #29 April 13, 2005 QuoteBut we only have about 7,000 in the entire history of the USPA that have made 1,000 jumps. Weeelllll -- while your point is taken, that's "7000 in the entire history" who have gotten their gold wings. Not everyone sends in for them. Wendy W. (who doesn't have a gold wings)There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #30 April 13, 2005 QuoteQuote For Kallend Quote No way of telling. Some people learn MUCH more quickly than others, and some never learn much at all. Skydiving is not like physics where you can read through a bunch of books and understand the subject. Your comments on a different thread about a FJS knowing about an AAD indicate that you do not understand that there are 'MUST knows' in this sport and 'nice to knows'. IOW, a FJS does not need to know how to operate and AAD or even what its operational parameters are. An experienced jumper does need to know these things. Actually my suggestion was that learning about an AAD should be part of the "A" license sign-off activities, like a "Commencement Address". www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1547645#1547645 I didn't suggest it should be in the FJC. In case you've forgotten, Commencement is the END of the student period. Quote Kallend, I have a suggestion for you. Teach a 'Physics for Jocks' class - no equations allowed. I did this at Woodland College a few years back. I was amazed at how much physics could be taught without equations. Feynman was a master at explaining complicated physics in simple terms. . Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #31 April 13, 2005 QuoteWeeelllll -- while your point is taken, that's "7000 in the entire history" who have gotten their gold wings. Not everyone sends in for them. Hence the *about* QuoteBut we only have about 7,000 in the entire history of the USPA that have made 1,000 jumps."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #32 April 13, 2005 QuoteNot everyone sends in for them. Wendy W. (who doesn't have a gold wings) Quote Allergic to PIE? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #33 April 13, 2005 QuoteI expect people to quit at anytime till they get 1,000 jumps. Right, so 1000 jumps in the magic number in your mind. Where does 10 years enter the equation? I'm 3 months away from 10 years since my first jump. But I'm far more the tourist than some guy who did 1500 in 5. Time can be a growing asset, or it can just be time. At some point people tend to plateau. You know the type that has 1 year of diving experience, done ten times. I think it's great that TIs must have 3 years time in addition to the 500 jumps. Many sports require a year, or no time before they'll endorse someone in a leadership role. So you get the type who dove into a sport 24/7 and have good skills/aptitude, but are terrible with regards to bringing along others. But after 3 or maybe 5 years, does time really tell you as much as other factors (ie - jump number or jumps last year)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #34 April 13, 2005 QuoteRight, so 1000 jumps in the magic number in your mind. Where does 10 years enter the equation? If they have been in the sport 10 years but don't have a bunch of jumps...Say a rigger, packer..ect. Or maybe they live in a state with a small DZ up north and can't make a bunch of jumps, but have been making 50-100 a year, but have been doing it for years. I have seen both of these situations. They still have spent plenty of time on the DZ. QuoteI'm 3 months away from 10 years since my first jump. But I'm far more the tourist than some guy who did 1500 in 5. Have you been skydiving for 10 years, or did you do your first jump 10 years ago..That is a BIG difference. QuoteTime can be a growing asset, or it can just be time. At some point people tend to plateau. You know the type that has 1 year of diving experience, done ten times. Very true...You have to be active...But I know people who consider 100 jumps a year "a lot"...Its not here in FL, but it might be in North Dakota. But if the person has been active for 10 years, but does not get to jump much due to the DZ being under snow 6 mths out of the year,a nd being at a small Cessna DZ...100 jumps a year is pretty good. QuoteBut after 3 or maybe 5 years, does time really tell you as much as other factors (ie - jump number or jumps last year)? Well its kinda both. I don't think a person who shows up and makes 1,000 jumps his first year is in any position to be an instructor. Of course I don't think the guy with 25 years and 500 jumps is either. I had a hot shot come out to the DZ all proud he was gonna buy a ZP 150 canopy with very few jumps for only a few hundered bucks...The canopy? A Nova. All his buddies thought it was a good deal. I have been in the sport long enough to know it was not a good deal. Jump numbers did not help make that choice...Time in sport did."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #35 April 14, 2005 Awsome.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Ron 10 #31 April 13, 2005 QuoteWeeelllll -- while your point is taken, that's "7000 in the entire history" who have gotten their gold wings. Not everyone sends in for them. Hence the *about* QuoteBut we only have about 7,000 in the entire history of the USPA that have made 1,000 jumps."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #32 April 13, 2005 QuoteNot everyone sends in for them. Wendy W. (who doesn't have a gold wings) Quote Allergic to PIE? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #33 April 13, 2005 QuoteI expect people to quit at anytime till they get 1,000 jumps. Right, so 1000 jumps in the magic number in your mind. Where does 10 years enter the equation? I'm 3 months away from 10 years since my first jump. But I'm far more the tourist than some guy who did 1500 in 5. Time can be a growing asset, or it can just be time. At some point people tend to plateau. You know the type that has 1 year of diving experience, done ten times. I think it's great that TIs must have 3 years time in addition to the 500 jumps. Many sports require a year, or no time before they'll endorse someone in a leadership role. So you get the type who dove into a sport 24/7 and have good skills/aptitude, but are terrible with regards to bringing along others. But after 3 or maybe 5 years, does time really tell you as much as other factors (ie - jump number or jumps last year)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #34 April 13, 2005 QuoteRight, so 1000 jumps in the magic number in your mind. Where does 10 years enter the equation? If they have been in the sport 10 years but don't have a bunch of jumps...Say a rigger, packer..ect. Or maybe they live in a state with a small DZ up north and can't make a bunch of jumps, but have been making 50-100 a year, but have been doing it for years. I have seen both of these situations. They still have spent plenty of time on the DZ. QuoteI'm 3 months away from 10 years since my first jump. But I'm far more the tourist than some guy who did 1500 in 5. Have you been skydiving for 10 years, or did you do your first jump 10 years ago..That is a BIG difference. QuoteTime can be a growing asset, or it can just be time. At some point people tend to plateau. You know the type that has 1 year of diving experience, done ten times. Very true...You have to be active...But I know people who consider 100 jumps a year "a lot"...Its not here in FL, but it might be in North Dakota. But if the person has been active for 10 years, but does not get to jump much due to the DZ being under snow 6 mths out of the year,a nd being at a small Cessna DZ...100 jumps a year is pretty good. QuoteBut after 3 or maybe 5 years, does time really tell you as much as other factors (ie - jump number or jumps last year)? Well its kinda both. I don't think a person who shows up and makes 1,000 jumps his first year is in any position to be an instructor. Of course I don't think the guy with 25 years and 500 jumps is either. I had a hot shot come out to the DZ all proud he was gonna buy a ZP 150 canopy with very few jumps for only a few hundered bucks...The canopy? A Nova. All his buddies thought it was a good deal. I have been in the sport long enough to know it was not a good deal. Jump numbers did not help make that choice...Time in sport did."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #35 April 14, 2005 Awsome.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
