Hard landing while making a low turn.

[Mazz 0]

It seems like this is by far what caused the most fatalities in 2008. Could somebody explain this to me?

What is it?
Why is it fatal?
Why do people do it?
How do you prevent it?
If it happens, what do you do?

In the Navy, you can't put your hands in your pockets but I was always told not to put my hands in my pockets by people with their hands in their pockets. Kinda funny huh?

[dragon2 2]

Might get more answers if you fill out your profile

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[wmw999 2,534]

When you turn your canopy it goes down faster. If you just crank down on a toggle (like most people do for most turns), then your canopy goes down a LOT faster. Under nearly any canopy you can make it go at a fatal rate of speed.

Why do people turn low?
a. they see something they think they're going to land on and want to avoid it
b. they see they're not landing into the wind and want to land into the wind
c. they lose track of altitude and just keep turning
d. they are doing a high-performance landing (i.e. swoop) and misjudge
e. Any of the above and they have an equipment problem that causes or fails to stop a turn at landing time.

It's fatal because if you go down faster, you hit the ground harder. As you swing out on a turn, you go even faster sideways. If you're going down fast enough, you hurt yourself or die. Factors that help decide which it is include the size of your canopy, the terrain you land on, just exactly where you were in your turn, whether you PLF, and how lucky you are. Note that some low turns are incompatible with survival no matter how lucky you are, or how good your PLF.

How to prevent? Well, plan early. Each of the above reasons really has to do with trying to recover from a series of events. If you start by jumping a canopy that's appropriate to your weight, experience, landing style, and focus on canopy flight that helps. Pay attention to where you are under canopy, where everyone else is, where the obstacles are, and where you're heading. Pay attention to your altitude, and know your canopy -- some canopies lose more altitude than others when turning. Some give you more time to recover than others. Learn YOUR canopy's characteristics by practicing up high. Take a canopy class, and even if your focus isn't canopy flight, take the occasional jump just to remind yourself of your canopy's characteristics.

If you find yourself turning closer to the ground than you planned
a. get your wings level. i.e. get your canopy to where it's right side up (rather than tilted), preferably by going into a flat turn
b. prepare for a really bad landing. Feet and knees together, and prepare to PLF.

You have to land on every single jump. Learn your canopy, and respect its power. Tonto (former moderator) used to have a tagline that said something like "the ground is hard, fast, and exceedingly fair." Note that Tonto also died hitting the ground hard on a high-performance landing. Based on witnesses and video, they think he missed either his riser or toggle when he tried to grab it, and only grabbed one of them. Thus a late-breaking unrecoverable turn. No one is too good to make a mistake, or get some bad luck. And sometimes exactly the same mistake is major, sometimes minor. That's where both planning and luck come in.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Why do people do it?

It's cool.

Cool kills.

[PhreeZone 20]

Not all low turns are swoop turns, there were a number of incidents last year involving people turning to avoid obstacles that ended in their deaths also. I fail to see how turning to get into the wind (not needed) or turning to avoid something makes something cool

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 3,070]

>It's cool.

Most people who get injured or killed during a low turn don't do it because "it's cool." They do it because they see a hazard, or think they have to turn into the wind at 100 feet, and they don't know how to turn low.

It is entirely possible to turn into the wind, or turn to avoid obstacles, at a very low altitude. However, most people don't know how. Indeed, when they downsize aggressively, often they promise other people they will not learn. (This comes across as "I'll be REALLY REALLY careful and always land straight in!") This is a huge warning flag to me, an indication that the person is not ready to jump a canopy of that size.

That's one of the main reasons that merely ending high performance landings will not end the problem. You will still have a lot of people turning low and injuring or killing themselves. Afterwards, the people who injured themselves can explain what happened. All too often, when they kill themselves, our interpretation is "idiot was trying to do a hook turn."

[Andy_Copland 0]

Epic Fail

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Here is an example of a series of bad decisions that resulted in me making a low turn. The only reason that I walked away is a FLAT TURN (aka "braked turn").

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3178836#3178836

I had no intention of making a stupid low turn when I got on the plane... but "No shit...there I was".

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

That's one of the main reasons that merely ending high performance landings will not end the problem. You will still have a lot of people turning low and injuring or killing themselves. Afterwards, the people who injured themselves can explain what happened. All too often, when they kill themselves, our interpretation is "idiot was trying to do a hook turn."

A couple years ago, that was mostly accurate. It does seem that the rate of these has dropped substantially, and last second avoidance turn has jumped up again.

[ozzy13 0]

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=1tfq3

Not one of my finer moments. Enjoy


This one was a classic
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=a652x

Aggressive low turn that almost cost him his life



In the first video I was landing out and was so worried about landing into the wind. Well I ended up turning down wind and the rest is history. The ground came up so fast I wasn't expecting it. Thats the reason for the late flare. Thats why landing into the wind is a preference not a priority.

The second video.
His break lines were a little short. Around 2000 ft he decided to spiral down for a landing. Pulling his toggle too hard and causing a malfunction.

Two very good examples of no aggressive turns low to the ground..I sure as shit learn my lesson

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[dropdeded 0]

Quote

>It's cool.

Most people who get injured or killed during a low turn don't do it because "it's cool." They do it because they see a hazard, or think they have to turn into the wind at 100 feet, and they don't know how to turn low.

EXACTLY my experience. 26 jumps, same landing pattern without deviation for 25. I was more looking at where I was gonna turn as opposed to where I NEEDED to turn into the wind. Realized I was coming up short of that final turn, cranked hard on the right toggle at 100 feet, and like Wendy described, pretty much dropped like a rock under a big ass 260. Broke the fibula in 2 places. It was absolutuly a case of not being prepared to adapt...correctly.

------------------------------------------
The Dude Abides.
-

[I3uller 0]

Quote

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=1tfq3

Not one of my finer moments. Enjoy

I'm sorry but I found that video pretty funny. Just sitting there looking at your canopy going "UGH!....UGH!.." haha I probably would have done the same thing. UGH! Why did I do that?

[ozzy13 0]

Quote

Quote

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=1tfq3

Not one of my finer moments. Enjoy

I'm sorry but I found that video pretty funny. Just sitting there looking at your canopy going "UGH!....UGH!.." haha I probably would have done the same thing. UGH! Why did I do that?

Trust me ... every time I watch it I laugh my ass off. Not sure why I did that. I was already into the wind. There was a tree line coming at me and had to make a decision. Well we can see it was the wrong one. I started a flat turn and as I came around I started accelerating. Hens the late flare. Mainly it was one big brain fart They put it in the end of year video at my DZ so at the party there was close to 100 people laughing I edited it after that I was saying welcome to skydiving. I will only do that once. Hey every one fucks up . Im just brave (Or stupid ) depending on how you look at it to show the world

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[aresye 0]

Even for a non-aggressive low turn, a canopy still loses quite a bit of altitude, and accelerates in a turn. I just call this the slingshot effect myself. I anticipate it whenever I make a turn, no matter how high I am.

Recently I had a no wind landing. I had to turn at approx. 100 feet, not to land into the wind, but to prevent myself from crossing the landing field and becoming a risk to others.

I did a nice braked turn, and that ground still came up really fast. I decided to land with a 20 degree angle, rather than risk flaring with my wings not level.

Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours.

[markovwgti 0]

Thanks once again for making my video more famous jerry....and it was about 120-1300 feet where i started the turn