NWFlyer 2 #251 March 26, 2008 Quote I contend that it's better to learn some lessons from others' experience - the universe teaches much, much, much harder lessons. I agree 100%. I just dont see bashing someone over the head to teach them is any help at all. I dont see it at 400 jumps and I wont see at 4000 jumps. The interesting thing about these forums (and skydiving in general, and hell, life in general) is that I've found that if you open yourself up to be taught, you will get much less bashing and a lot more teaching. Just under two years ago, I screwed up pretty badly and lived to tell about it. And I did, in great detail, here on the forums. I outlined what I did wrong, what I did right, and what I learned, and where I knew I got incredibly lucky. I talked about what I was going to do to reinforce my education on what I should have done better. That thread was remarkable in that there wasn't a lot of bashing. Sure, there was some, and it stung, and there were a couple of times where I had to step away from the keyboard before I responded. The difference, I think? Humility. Willingness to admit mistakes. Willingness to listen to opinions other than the ones I started with when I first posted the thread. And a history of posting that way (at least in the topical forums ). The people who whine the most about getting beat up are the ones who come out swinging and keep defending their opinions despite a lot of well-reasoned information that says maybe, just maybe, they ought to reconsider."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #252 March 26, 2008 The people who whine the most about getting beat up are the ones who come out swinging and keep defending their opinions despite a lot of well-reasoned information that says maybe, just maybe, they ought to reconsider. ////////////////////////////////////////////////// Just thought it needed to be said agian. Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crashtested 0 #253 March 27, 2008 Well played marko, glad your alive. I'm so getting a skyhook, that was funking awesome. Did you shit yourself a little??? Stay safe and do what your DZ and home instructors think is best for you. Magic guy, northwest flyer amongst others, my god.. you guys are sounding like you want people to die... is it so you can say "I told you so"??? I don't understand your attitude, I frankly don't care for it either, read what you have written and THINK! Nasty nasty stuff, If you have nothing constructive, or funny to say maybe keep it to yourselves Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #254 March 27, 2008 If you have nothing constructive, or funny to say maybe keep it to yourselves /////////////////////////////////////// Just thought it needed to be said agian. Sorry im a New Yorker I had to do it lolNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #255 March 27, 2008 QuoteIf you have nothing constructive, or funny to say maybe keep it to yourselves Just thought it needed to be said again. The OP's question was: Quote1.333 Wingloading with 160 jumps.... What do you guys think about that? With a wide open question like that he is going to get about the widest variety of opinions there could possibly be - good and bad. He chose to air his own laundry here, so he gets to deal with the responses he receives - taking them as they come.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #256 March 27, 2008 >I'm so getting a skyhook . . . If you get a skyhook to increase your safety margins, then good for you. If you get a skyhook because you think it makes a cutaway at 300 feet OK, and makes the turns shown in that video safer - then it might just kill you. Choose wisely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #257 March 27, 2008 Quote The people who whine the most about getting beat up are the ones who come out swinging and keep defending their opinions despite a lot of well-reasoned information that says maybe, just maybe, they ought to reconsider. ////////////////////////////////////////////////// Just thought it needed to be said agian. ////////////////////////////////////////////////// Sorry ozzie i just just had to do it agian. Im a Texan, you know us southernersNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #258 March 27, 2008 Quote Quote The people who whine the most about getting beat up are the ones who come out swinging and keep defending their opinions despite a lot of well-reasoned information that says maybe, just maybe, they ought to reconsider. ////////////////////////////////////////////////// Just thought it needed to be said agian. ////////////////////////////////////////////////// Sorry ozzie i just just had to do it agian. Im a Texan, you know us southerners GOOD SHIT LOLNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #259 March 27, 2008 Slotperfect I have a serious question. In all your years you never had a student come up to you with a question like that. Or maybe you over heard a question like this being asked to someone else. Would you allow the person being asked the question to bash the student. I know I wouldn't. I would at least pull the student to the side and explain to them why or why not to the question. I realize the kid opened himself for all this. I just don't agree with it thats all. I think there are better ways to educate someone then to publicly humiliate them. I read this whole Thread and there was some really good advice. I also saw that he had a answer to every post. I just feel that doesn't mean you give up on him and start bashing and if and when he gets hurt you say I told you so.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicGuy 0 #260 March 27, 2008 QuoteMagic guy, northwest flyer amongst others, my god.. you guys are sounding like you want people to die... is it so you can say "I told you so"??? Call it tough love, crash. The last thing I want is to see anyone get hurt, and I post the way I do in the hopes to inject some common sense into people who I consider are making bad decisions. Marko is obviously making bad decisions - he induced spinning linetwists into his fully functioning canopy at a low altitude. That's only one thing he did wrong. Look at how long it takes him to get his hands into his toggles, not to mention he is steering his canopy with only 2 fingers in his toggles. Lose a toggle on landing and it would be bad news. He did a multitude of things wrong, and is seriously lucky that he is alive. That is NOT an understatement. I've watched a close friend get fucked up and come within inches of death. I don't want to see it happen again, especially when it can be prevented beforehand. Call me an a-hole or whatever you want. When you see someone get fucked up or die, you will understand that it's the little things that do count in this sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #261 March 27, 2008 Quoteyou guys are sounding like you want people to die I'll take missing the point for $600, Alex."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydriven 0 #262 March 27, 2008 Well let me start by saying that all of you group PA removed by slotperfect who contributed to this thread with nothing good to say should be ashamed at yourselves. The kid asked a question that could have been ignored by all of you since you were all just going to bash him anyway. Have your mother and fathers not taught you any good qualities? This thread looks like it came from a bunch of high schoolers....pathetic.. Marko all im going to say is that you saved your life...the skyhook helped...but you now have done something that will stick out in your mind for the rest of your life...and you will hopefully tell other people how to avoid it more then others! but personally to the others PA removed by slotperfect Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #263 March 27, 2008 QuoteWell let me start by saying that all of you Quoted PA removed by slotperfect who contributed to this thread with nothing good to say should be ashamed at yourselves. The kid asked a question that could have been ignored by all of you since you were all just going to bash him anyway. Have your mother and fathers not taught you any good qualities? This thread looks like it came from a bunch of high schoolers....pathetic.. Marko all im going to say is that you saved your life...the skyhook helped...but you now have done something that will stick out in your mind for the rest of your life...and you will hopefully tell other people how to avoid it more then others! but personally to the others Quoted PA removed by slotperfect PA removed by slotperfect, buddy - if you want fluffy bunnies and rainbows, take up cross-stitching. Sometimes, blunt speaking is the only way to get the point across to someone. Marko starting this thread asking for opinions, and got them - he (and others) then got defensive when he was told it was a bad idea. That's *HIS* problem (which is evidently solved, now - good), not the problem of the other posters.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #264 March 27, 2008 [warning] PAs are not allowed in the forums [/warning]Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #265 March 27, 2008 [warning] PAs are not allowed in the forums [/warning]Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #266 March 27, 2008 QuoteIn all your years you never had a student come up to you with a question like that. I have never had a student ask me a question like that in front of 71,000 other people. QuoteI realize the kid opened himself for all this. That was my point. Apparently you got it. QuoteI just don't agree with it thats all. And, like all of the others that replied with the "tough talk" that you don't like, you are free to post your opinion here. As long as the posts are within the forum rules, they stay.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #267 March 27, 2008 QuoteWell let me start by saying that all of you group PA removed by slotperfect who contributed to this thread with nothing good to say should be ashamed at yourselves. The kid asked a question that could have been ignored by all of you since you were all just going to bash him anyway. Have your mother and fathers not taught you any good qualities? This thread looks like it came from a bunch of high schoolers....pathetic.. QuoteRegistered: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1 Does anyone else smell a sock puppet or is it just me?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #268 March 27, 2008 QuoteThe kid asked a question that could have been ignored by all of you since you were all just going to bash him anyway. Have your mother and fathers not taught you any good qualities? This thread looks like it came from a bunch of high schoolers....pathetic.. Marko all im going to say is that you saved your life...the skyhook helped...but you now have done something that will stick out in your mind for the rest of your life...and you will hopefully tell other people how to avoid it more then others! My noob-sense is tingling...... 3 things: 1. The "kid" began this thread asking for opinions. With your 13 long years in the sport and class F license, surely you must realize how dangerous it would be to limit responses to his question with only "happy happy joy joy everything's gonna be ok, so don't you worry...." The kid (your kid?) made some questionable choices. 2. The question he asked absolutely should not be ignored by anyone, especially those who would "bash" him. I think we can all agree a verbal bashing hurts a lot less than a terrestrial bashing. 3. Marko may be able to tell people how to avoid spinning yourself into a line twist, but only if he is alive to do so. Right now, he has no more business advising people about skydiving than I do.T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites woodpecker 0 #269 March 27, 2008 My noob-sense is tingling...... SONIC WOODY #146 There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydriven 0 #270 March 27, 2008 well its off by far buddy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydriven 0 #271 March 27, 2008 and its funny how all the guys talking bad to marko have 12-375 jumps...what do you all know.....not much Edit: had to lift the jump number to 375 so we can fit tough guy in here(magicguy) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #272 March 27, 2008 Quoteand its funny how all the guys talking bad to marko have 12-375 jumps...what do you all know.....not much True dat. Which is why I've left the actual advice-giving to people with a lot more experience than I have (and looking through this thread there are many, many people with thousands of jumps who have put in their thoughts). I've somehow been lumped in with the evil crowd that wants marko to die (quite to the contrary, I'd prefer it if no one died skydiving), but I haven't made a single comment on marko's choice of gear - I'll leave that to people with a lot more experience and skill than I have."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydriven 0 #273 March 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteand its funny how all the guys talking bad to marko have 12-375 jumps...what do you all know.....not much True dat. Which is why I've left the actual advice-giving to people with a lot more experience than I have (and looking through this thread there are many, many people with thousands of jumps who have put in their thoughts). I've somehow been lumped in with the evil crowd that wants marko to die (quite to the contrary, I'd prefer it if no one died skydiving), but I haven't made a single comment on marko's choice of gear - I'll leave that to people with a lot more experience and skill than I have. i said its funny how all the GUYS.....not the girls ;) ....i know you didnt say anything bad about marko...sorry for the misunderstanding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #274 March 27, 2008 PM rec'd from skydriven to me: Quote "Right now marko has alot more to teach other skydivers then you....what can 12 jumps teach you?" That I don't know shit, as I've stated before. That no matter what level I achieve, there are folks here with thousands and thousands of skydives, and they generally know better how to stay alive. That listening to them will probably keep you out of the hospital, or the morgue. Ask any one of them, and they'll tell you Marko is new to the sport. From what I gather, everybody is kind of new until they have 4 digits in their logbooks. As such, we are all students. I never meant to offend anyone, skydriven, and if you really have been in the sport for 13 years as your profile states, then I apologize. Edited to add: By the way, the "noob-sense" is about me, not you - buddy. I have noob-sense about me. I was making fun of myself, ok?T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ozzy13 0 #275 March 27, 2008 And, like all of the others that replied with the "tough talk" that you don't like, you are free to post your opinion here. As long as the posts are within the forum rules, they stay. I just think its the wrong approach thats allNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #264 March 27, 2008 [warning] PAs are not allowed in the forums [/warning]Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #265 March 27, 2008 [warning] PAs are not allowed in the forums [/warning]Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #266 March 27, 2008 QuoteIn all your years you never had a student come up to you with a question like that. I have never had a student ask me a question like that in front of 71,000 other people. QuoteI realize the kid opened himself for all this. That was my point. Apparently you got it. QuoteI just don't agree with it thats all. And, like all of the others that replied with the "tough talk" that you don't like, you are free to post your opinion here. As long as the posts are within the forum rules, they stay.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #267 March 27, 2008 QuoteWell let me start by saying that all of you group PA removed by slotperfect who contributed to this thread with nothing good to say should be ashamed at yourselves. The kid asked a question that could have been ignored by all of you since you were all just going to bash him anyway. Have your mother and fathers not taught you any good qualities? This thread looks like it came from a bunch of high schoolers....pathetic.. QuoteRegistered: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1 Does anyone else smell a sock puppet or is it just me?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #268 March 27, 2008 QuoteThe kid asked a question that could have been ignored by all of you since you were all just going to bash him anyway. Have your mother and fathers not taught you any good qualities? This thread looks like it came from a bunch of high schoolers....pathetic.. Marko all im going to say is that you saved your life...the skyhook helped...but you now have done something that will stick out in your mind for the rest of your life...and you will hopefully tell other people how to avoid it more then others! My noob-sense is tingling...... 3 things: 1. The "kid" began this thread asking for opinions. With your 13 long years in the sport and class F license, surely you must realize how dangerous it would be to limit responses to his question with only "happy happy joy joy everything's gonna be ok, so don't you worry...." The kid (your kid?) made some questionable choices. 2. The question he asked absolutely should not be ignored by anyone, especially those who would "bash" him. I think we can all agree a verbal bashing hurts a lot less than a terrestrial bashing. 3. Marko may be able to tell people how to avoid spinning yourself into a line twist, but only if he is alive to do so. Right now, he has no more business advising people about skydiving than I do.T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woodpecker 0 #269 March 27, 2008 My noob-sense is tingling...... SONIC WOODY #146 There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydriven 0 #270 March 27, 2008 well its off by far buddy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydriven 0 #271 March 27, 2008 and its funny how all the guys talking bad to marko have 12-375 jumps...what do you all know.....not much Edit: had to lift the jump number to 375 so we can fit tough guy in here(magicguy) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #272 March 27, 2008 Quoteand its funny how all the guys talking bad to marko have 12-375 jumps...what do you all know.....not much True dat. Which is why I've left the actual advice-giving to people with a lot more experience than I have (and looking through this thread there are many, many people with thousands of jumps who have put in their thoughts). I've somehow been lumped in with the evil crowd that wants marko to die (quite to the contrary, I'd prefer it if no one died skydiving), but I haven't made a single comment on marko's choice of gear - I'll leave that to people with a lot more experience and skill than I have."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydriven 0 #273 March 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteand its funny how all the guys talking bad to marko have 12-375 jumps...what do you all know.....not much True dat. Which is why I've left the actual advice-giving to people with a lot more experience than I have (and looking through this thread there are many, many people with thousands of jumps who have put in their thoughts). I've somehow been lumped in with the evil crowd that wants marko to die (quite to the contrary, I'd prefer it if no one died skydiving), but I haven't made a single comment on marko's choice of gear - I'll leave that to people with a lot more experience and skill than I have. i said its funny how all the GUYS.....not the girls ;) ....i know you didnt say anything bad about marko...sorry for the misunderstanding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #274 March 27, 2008 PM rec'd from skydriven to me: Quote "Right now marko has alot more to teach other skydivers then you....what can 12 jumps teach you?" That I don't know shit, as I've stated before. That no matter what level I achieve, there are folks here with thousands and thousands of skydives, and they generally know better how to stay alive. That listening to them will probably keep you out of the hospital, or the morgue. Ask any one of them, and they'll tell you Marko is new to the sport. From what I gather, everybody is kind of new until they have 4 digits in their logbooks. As such, we are all students. I never meant to offend anyone, skydriven, and if you really have been in the sport for 13 years as your profile states, then I apologize. Edited to add: By the way, the "noob-sense" is about me, not you - buddy. I have noob-sense about me. I was making fun of myself, ok?T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #275 March 27, 2008 And, like all of the others that replied with the "tough talk" that you don't like, you are free to post your opinion here. As long as the posts are within the forum rules, they stay. I just think its the wrong approach thats allNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
