1.333 Wingloading with 160 jumps....

[airtwardo 7]

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it`s hopeless..

I sure hope so!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[johan420 0]

hey...what did your mommy tell you about posting on internet??

[airtwardo 7]

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hey...what did your mommy tell you about posting on internet??

Never have a battle of wits with the unarmed.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[johan420 0]

ahh, good one..

[markovwgti 0]

damn i must say its good to be back!!! haha...the wingloading..i actually weighed myself with the rig and my helmet on and everythig i wear when i exit the aircraft...and well i got a different wingloading...seems like i was off by a bit too much...got 9 jumps in today...landed them all great...didnt go down once or bounce...like anyof you hoped i would..just overshot the landing area by a few feet and skimmed across 6 inch deep mud...lost my shoe in it...haha..fun times...:)

[johan420 0]

great...now, do a search in classifieds and find a real canopy. A Velocity 84 must hit your spot...just take it easy on the first 5-10 load then you be fine, your my hero..

edit to add:
if you should be a real man, ADD is a nono..
sell it and buy the smallest reserve there is(of course a low-volumpacked one for a smooth looking rig)

[happythoughts 0]

Done.

[denete 3]

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edit to add:
if you should be a real man, ADD is a nono..

ADD...*snicker,snicker*...ADD...*snicker*

[Para5-0 0]

Listen Knuckle head, I can call you that because I know you. In all honesty, a 1.3 is not so bad considering several factors. First, the DZ you jump at is enormous.(10,000 FT/ 7000 FT runway) The outs just in case you have to bail are plentiful. The winds are usually constant due to the ocean and stronger than other dropzones. I just do not want you to get a false sense of security because of these factors. It is going to be when you go somewhere else that is not as open or the outs are scarce that you will have to really fly the canopy. If you are going to jump it which it appears you are, then please be conservative, and attempt to get familiar with it up high. I would strongly recommend straight in approaches with minor inputs. When you get back from CA, we will discuss in full and I would suggest we do some canopy training so you understand the capabilities of your parachute. Most jumpers who I see downsizing have not even come close to the capabilities of the canopy they had. I will be able to tell this once we start to analyze where exactly you are, which I do not know. I did not have you as a student, in fact I am not sure where you were trained or by who. Now that I know your situation I will give you guidance the best I can. I do not beleive you should be ignored or written off as a loss. It is our or my responsibility to keep you from becoming a statistic.
More importantly you are not the only jumper to be in this situation. It appears more and more lower jump number jumpers are pushing the limit and attempting to downsize quickly. Some get away with it and others do not. Marko, be careful and stay safe, we will talk when you get back. You are not the first and will not be the last to push it.

[Blink 1]

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ADD...*snicker,snicker*...ADD...*snicker*

Some places call it an AAD, others an ADD (Automatic Deployment Device).

[denete 3]

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ADD...*snicker,snicker*...ADD...*snicker*

Some places call it an AAD, others an ADD (Automatic Deployment Device).

Understood. Just not the same as the ADD that I'm more familiar with.

[johan420 0]

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Listen Knuckle head, I can call you that because I know you. In all honesty, a 1.3 is not so bad considering several factors. First, the DZ you jump at is enormous.(10,000 FT/ 7000 FT runway) The outs just in case you have to bail are plentiful. The winds are usually constant due to the ocean and stronger than other dropzones. I just do not want you to get a false sense of security because of these factors. It is going to be when you go somewhere else that is not as open or the outs are scarce that you will have to really fly the canopy. If you are going to jump it which it appears you are, then please be conservative, and attempt to get familiar with it up high. I would strongly recommend straight in approaches with minor inputs. When you get back from CA, we will discuss in full and I would suggest we do some canopy training so you understand the capabilities of your parachute. Most jumpers who I see downsizing have not even come close to the capabilities of the canopy they had. I will be able to tell this once we start to analyze where exactly you are, which I do not know. I did not have you as a student, in fact I am not sure where you were trained or by who. Now that I know your situation I will give you guidance the best I can. I do not beleive you should be ignored or written off as a loss. It is our or my responsibility to keep you from becoming a statistic.
More importantly you are not the only jumper to be in this situation. It appears more and more lower jump number jumpers are pushing the limit and attempting to downsize quickly. Some get away with it and others do not. Marko, be careful and stay safe, we will talk when you get back. You are not the first and will not be the last to push it.

why are you responding to me?

[Para5-0 0]

I guess I hit the wrong person, it was meant to go to Marko. Sorry

[winsor 236]

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damn i must say its good to be back!!! haha...the wingloading..i actually weighed myself with the rig and my helmet on and everythig i wear when i exit the aircraft...and well i got a different wingloading...seems like i was off by a bit too much...got 9 jumps in today...landed them all great...didnt go down once or bounce...like anyof you hoped i would..just overshot the landing area by a few feet and skimmed across 6 inch deep mud...lost my shoe in it...haha..fun times...:)

Okay, so you're on to us old farts. We are stuck in the mindset where you need to have 200 jumps on a round before you can jump a ParaCommander.

Skydive Chicago has been training students on semi-elliptical zero-P canopies for quite some time, and has turned out some world-class canopy pilots.

It's a different world, and you obviously have the skills to make the most of it. Hey, if you can handle a motorcycle with triple the horsepower of my Harley, I think it's absurd to expect you to dawdle along with the less able people in the crowd.

When I started skydiving, someone with 100 jumps could be a jumpmaster. You have 160? And you're sticking with a dog loaded at 1.333? I can't believe you're wasting your talent on that skyslug.

Look, the only way you are ever going to be competitive is to jump a canopy with some actual performance. I have two cross-braced 99s, and could sell you one at a pretty good price. They are not as aggressive as anything Luigi Cani jumps, but it's a start.

Be real, I'm 54 years old and I'm sure your reflexes are far better than mine. What could possibly go wrong?

BTW, I would like to be the beneficiary on a small policy if you decide to go for it.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[NWPoul 1]

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What do you guys think about that?

What people think, what people say and what they do - is often quite different things:)
See this topic:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3044109;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[ozzy13 0]

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> if 9 out of 10 dont listen, maybe its not being told the right way. the
> odds are in favor of that statement.

Agreed. But in this case 9 out of 10 DO listen. It's the 1 out of 10 who posts here to defend his heavily loaded canopy choice that gets all the attention.

You hit the nail on the Head. Thats all this is about. Attention. Hes going to jump it know matter what anyone here or else where tells him. I just hope another new skydiver reads this and makes the right decision

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[billvon 3,070]

> I just hope another new skydiver reads this and makes the right decision.

Agreed. That's one of the reasons I am often willing to put up with yet another round of "you don't understand! You don't have my mad skillz! You're the old guard, one of the canopy nazis that doesn't understand that things are DIFFERENT now!" Because for everyone one of them we see on here, another ten new jumpers are reading these threads (and especially the incidents threads) and making better decisions because of it.

[Nomad 0]

Ohrrah.. new jumper here making good decision after reading forums such as this and tomany low turns/etc incident forms. I like my limbs attached thank you. I'm only 21... i've got a good 45 solid years of skydiving. Downsizing to fast mean i'll be having to land just a wingsuit when i'm 50 just to keep things interesting

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all who wander are lost.

[damion75 0]

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What do you guys think about that?

What people think, what people say and what they do - is often quite different things:)
See this topic:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3044109;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

It could just be me, but when I read threads like that, I see a few top canopy pilots putting out some useful information, and a lot of very average canopy pilots who are pushing the limits of their skill envelopes boasting about how fast they have gone small without (so far) killing themselves...

Xaos 90 loaded at 1.9 at 500 jumps...
Xfire2 109 at 400 jumps

I mean, if it makes you feel like people on the DZ should take you more seriously then rock on, but I give my kudos to the coaches, instructors and more mature people around. What are you trying to prove and who are you trying to prove it too? Because no-one else really cares...

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[packerboy 3]

Honestly.. it's a little bit of a quick progression, but he's no packing_jarrett, is that guy still alive?

If he's a reckless idiot with this thing, hopefully some REAL person at his DZ will do something about it. If not, well.. he's just another one of the envelope pushers. (And not even really as bad ass as most)

I would like to see a list of the canopy progression of some of the pro swoopers. I'd bet that sure there are some that are right off Billvon's list, but I'd also bet that a fairly large percentage of them were walking right in this guys shoes.

I think (and I use that term because I have fairly low numbers and aren't nearly as experienced and godly as anyone else here) that what people should be saying to this guy is "BE CAREFULL, BE VERY F'ING CAREFULL, or it's going to really hurt." Not "YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!"

I'll take the bet from even the most experienced jumpers on here. I don't think he's going to bounce. I think he's going to scare the crap out of himself at some point... He may even get hurt real bad. But I don't think he'll die. You are all being a little mellowdramatic here. Then again maybe he'll die. I'll take the bet that he won't though. But hey, I'm a bit of a gambler and I think I've got a pretty decent handle on the odds. Disclaimer: I wouldn't push all in with that bet ;)

Kudos to the guy from his DZ that stepped up and said.. "Hey, I know you.. let's talk." He didn't call him a DGIT or an IDGIT. That's cool. He's already jumping the damn thing... get off the don't buy it or it will kill you bandwagon, it's full. Help the guy out.

Btw OP, Scott Miller runs a really good course you should try and take. People in the high thousands of jump numbers at our dz came away from that course feeling that they had learned alot about how canopies actually work and feel they had better tools of survival.

www.freedomofflight.tv/ Check this website out and gl2u.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[davelepka 4]

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what people should be saying to this guy is "BE CAREFULL, BE VERY F'ING CAREFULL, or it's going to really hurt." Not "YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!"

How many times you have waken up, and thought to yourslef, "I'm going to go the DZ and be reckless under canopy.'?

My guess is never. I'd also hazard a guess that all those who have been broken or killed under canopy never thought that either.

Pilots and spotters don't think like that, but sometimes they put you out in a bad spot, over trees, next to the barbed wire factory.

Conservative jumpers don't think like that, but sometimes they fly around like they're the only ones in the sky, and cut you off at 100 ft.

The mighty wind gods may actually be trying to kill you from time to time, when they hit you with gusty, turbulent winds that seem to come out of nowhere.


As careful as you may try to be, nobody else out there is on your team. They're on THEIR team, being careful with regards to themselves.

Giving someone a canopy that they need to be careful with is not the way to go. You jump a canopy that can easily handle when everything else you can think of has gone wrong. When fear has taken over, and your logical, controlled thinking is on a coffee break, you still have to land a parachute.

You should be jumping a canopy you can land while chewing gum, watching another canopy on final, and thinking about boobs.

[damion75 0]

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You should be jumping a canopy you can land while chewing gum, watching another canopy on final, and thinking about boobs.

Now that's something to aspire to!! Great line...

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[packerboy 3]

Currency is the issue here IMO... 160 jumps in one summer would be one thing. This guy needs to jump more if he's going to push it.

He's going to jump it, and this canopy choice is not nearly as bad as ones that I've seen people make. Might as well help him through it. The days of trying to talk him out of doing it are long gone.

Anyone who just sais "You're going to die, I'll be fine.." and sits back, crosses their arms and watches it happen, should know that even if they couldn't stop the guy from jumping this canopy they still could have done something to increase the odds of survival.

Shit or get off the f'ing pot! The "You're an idiot, you are going to die!" argument is getting real old. It obviously doesn't mean much coming from a bunch of noface people on the internet anyway. Might as well throw something with substance at the guy, hopefully he will take it back to the DZ.. discuss it with someone who can ellaborate a little and make something of it.

I bet alot of these old timers that know what they are talking about (not arguing that they don't know) have jumped drunk, stoned, downsized quickly, cut holes on their Paracommander, got out too low, pulled too low, fought malfunctions longer than they should have, been on jumps that were above their skill level, turned too low, pencil packed their reserves, hurried to the plane while stuffing their PC in, FINISHED PACKING in the plane, followed a group too closely, lost altitude awareness, cut someone off or generally made a poor decision at some point in THEIR jumping career and lived through it. Did everyone write them off as just a DGIT? Maybe, maybe not.. but they didn't bounce and now have the knowledge and skills and hindsight to be able to help someone out in a practical sense. WELL F'ING USE IT! I'm sure at some point they were told to not do one of the above things, but went ahead and did it anway.

I'm sure the ones who had people help them through the process rather than writing them off as dead came through alot more smoothly than those who didn't.

I'm not a big fan of "Skygods", and I think those of you who just keep repeating the assurance that this guy is going to maim himself, just come across as "I'm stuck up, I'm smart, I have more jumps than you, I correct grammar on DZ.com, arrogant pricks". Why do you need to be like that? It is too bad, because I'm sure 99% of you are very nice people in person who I would have a lot of fun with, learn alot from, and drink and generally be merry with, I KNOW IT. I'm willing to bet that if this guy were someone at your dropzone you would do your damndest to help him out, you wouldn't just write him off as dead. But why do people just HAVE to be dinks when they are on the internet?

I suppose I do understand the pshycology behind it, and it is something I know I've been guilty of before, but it's frustrating to see when it involves someones life safety. Maybe I just come from a small little place where people stick together and not from some big commercial place where everyone has become so desensitized from the carnage all around them they just don't care to deal with attitudes anymore. Attitudes alot of them probably had themselves when they were new. It's not like the guy is going to attempt to jump 17 flaming school buses backwards on a tricycle made of tofu.. jeezus christ, there is a pretty good chance he's going to make it! Stop being so fucking old.


My advice as insignificant as it is: Get off the fucking internet, stop trolling, go do some jumps, do high H&P's, get a canopy pilot course, talk to your local hotshot canopy pilots, enjoy your parachute, learn your parachute, and try your damndest to not kill yourself or anyone else in the process. GL.

--------------------------------------------------
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[markovwgti 0]

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Currency is the issue here IMO... 160 jumps in one summer would be one thing. This guy needs to jump more if he's going to push it.

He's going to jump it, and this canopy choice is not nearly as bad as ones that I've seen people make. Might as well help him through it. The days of trying to talk him out of doing it are long gone.

Anyone who just sais "You're going to die, I'll be fine.." and sits back, crosses their arms and watches it happen, should know that even if they couldn't stop the guy from jumping this canopy they still could have done something to increase the odds of survival.

Shit or get off the f'ing pot! The "You're an idiot, you are going to die!" argument is getting real old. It obviously doesn't mean much coming from a bunch of noface people on the internet anyway. Might as well throw something with substance at the guy, hopefully he will take it back to the DZ.. discuss it with someone who can ellaborate a little and make something of it.

I bet alot of these old timers that know what they are talking about (not arguing that they don't know) have jumped drunk, stoned, downsized quickly, cut holes on their Paracommander, got out too low, pulled too low, fought malfunctions longer than they should have, been on jumps that were above their skill level, turned too low, pencil packed their reserves, hurried to the plane while stuffing their PC in, FINISHED PACKING in the plane, followed a group too closely, lost altitude awareness, cut someone off or generally made a poor decision at some point in THEIR jumping career and lived through it. Did everyone write them off as just a DGIT? Maybe, maybe not.. but they didn't bounce and now have the knowledge and skills and hindsight to be able to help someone out in a practical sense. WELL F'ING USE IT! I'm sure at some point they were told to not do one of the above things, but went ahead and did it anway.

I'm sure the ones who had people help them through the process rather than writing them off as dead came through alot more smoothly than those who didn't.

I'm not a big fan of "Skygods", and I think those of you who just keep repeating the assurance that this guy is going to maim himself, just come across as "I'm stuck up, I'm smart, I have more jumps than you, I correct grammar on DZ.com, arrogant pricks". Why do you need to be like that? It is too bad, because I'm sure 99% of you are very nice people in person who I would have a lot of fun with, learn alot from, and drink and generally be merry with, I KNOW IT. I'm willing to bet that if this guy were someone at your dropzone you would do your damndest to help him out, you wouldn't just write him off as dead. But why do people just HAVE to be dinks when they are on the internet?

I suppose I do understand the pshycology behind it, and it is something I know I've been guilty of before, but it's frustrating to see when it involves someones life safety. Maybe I just come from a small little place where people stick together and not from some big commercial place where everyone has become so desensitized from the carnage all around them they just don't care to deal with attitudes anymore. Attitudes alot of them probably had themselves when they were new. It's not like the guy is going to attempt to jump 17 flaming school buses backwards on a tricycle made of tofu.. jeezus christ, there is a pretty good chance he's going to make it! Stop being so fucking old.


My advice as insignificant as it is: Get off the fucking internet, stop trolling, go do some jumps, do high H&P's, get a canopy pilot course, talk to your local hotshot canopy pilots, enjoy your parachute, learn your parachute, and try your damndest to not kill yourself or anyone else in the process. GL.

:)

im currently working on what you wrote in your last paragraph...i just did 30 jumps in 3 days at perriss....the dropzone is 1500 ASL..my dropzone is at sea level...i was coming in much faster at perris then i will be at my home dropzone...and every single landing was a no wind landing

Out of the 30 no wind landings at 1500 ASL...i landed each and every single landing on my feet...ozzy13 can vouch for me on that one....i was setting up my final at about 500 feet or so...turning with rears if i had to change course a little..and half brake turns with toggles.

Im being very careful with this canopy guys...but im not scared of it and not nervous on it...only thing im worried ABOUT is getting cut off really low....(but who isnt)..btw im keeping my hands near the rear risers just incase the whole time!! im going to be taking a canopy course by scott miller as soon as he is in the east coast area by NY giving a course somewhere around here!

[crashtested 0]

I agree.....

Pretty much with everything you said.

Dropzone.com forums do seem to get more then its fair share of doom mongers.

Scott millers course does rock, as does a good crw course, makes you appriciate your canopy a bit more!!

Good sound advice packerboy!!

The good advice normally comes from people who have bothered to attend canopy courses. How many of you Doom mongers have been on one i wonder?
or maybe you to busy taking tandem students