Happy With USPA elections

[BillyVance 34]

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[lancefrazier 0]

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You mean the person who rallied a skydiving organization to monitor the business practices of a company, getting said organization into a lawsuit, and then single handedly forced a settlement so that the USPA could continue to exist?

I'm sorry, all of that would be very inaccurate, (almost like Bill himself wrote it). I would tell you look up the pertinent legal documents, but I can tell from the way you wrote that sentence that you do not wish to investigate any further.

could you direct us to the "pertinent legal documents"?

if this assertion is inaccurate, what's the skinny?

well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

[labrys 0]

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I'm sorry, all of that would be very inaccurate, (almost like Bill himself wrote it). I would tell you look up the pertinent legal documents, but I can tell from the way you wrote that sentence that you do not wish to investigate any further.

Who's Bill?

As for the rest of your post, what's in the pertinent legal documents that you can share that contradicts his post? My mind is open.

Owned by Remi #?

[Thanatos340 1]

Here are a couple posts on the only ruling the Judge made in the case.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3235555#3235555

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3234909#3234909

The USPA`s Insurance company and Executive Committee (That had a Skyride affiliate as a Member) made the decision to settle this case without approval from the BOD and then did a good job of convincing people that they had to because of Jan. The Filed court documents and Judges Ruling do not support that at all if you read them.

Skyride made 8 Claims against the USPA. The Judge dismessed 4 of those claims. The remaining claims that the judge let stand had absoluetly NOTHING to do Jan or any of her actions. It was because of the alledged actions of other members of the BOD. Read the Ruling.

[JohnRich 4]

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Ten percent of the the membership took the time to pull the friggin ballots out of the magazine that was dropped in their lap; five minutes to fill out the ballots and maybe two minutes to put a stamp on it. If we as a society are too fucking lazy to fill out a ballot that's dropped in our lap...

Here's another perspective.

It could be that many of the members, probably even most of them, don't really know anything about the personalities and accomplishments of the people running for the board. I've been in this sport 30 years, and I still don't have a clue on most of them. Because of that, people could be hesitant to vote, not knowing whether or not their vote would be the right thing.

What I had to do was re-read "Skydiving" and "Parachutist" several times, as well as reading all the comments on this forum about the candidates. That took a lot of time. But only then was I comfortable filling out my ballot, and confident that it represented my feelings.

All of that took hours, not just minutes. And many people may not get both magazines, or use dropzone.com, so their information is more limited.

It could simply be a matter of not knowing the right thing to do, thereby abstaining and letting the more knowledgeable people make the right decisions.

And I prefer that voters who are ignorant of the people, facts and issues - not vote. I wish we could get voters to do that in regular political elections!

[BIGUN 1,419]

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All of that took hours, not just minutes.

You know what I meant... the process of voting.

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And I prefer that people who are ignorant of the people, facts and issues not vote. I wish we could get people to do that in political elections!

Whereas, I would prefer we didn't give 90% of our peers an escape for non-performance in either organizational or legislative voting processes. It's the 90% who bitch and complain the most that do nothing and when they have the chance to do something... use some bullshit excuse about, "I didn't know the candidates or there was no one to support my platform." Fifteen yard penalty for bullshit. It's about being to lazy to give a shit, John.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Andy9o8 2]

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And I prefer that voters who are ignorant of the people, facts and issues - not vote. I wish we could get voters to do that in regular political elections!

You prefer Democratic landslides? I never thought I'd hear you say it.

[lancefrazier 0]

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Here are a couple posts on the only ruling the Judge made in the case.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3235555#3235555

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3234909#3234909

The USPA`s Insurance company and Executive Committee (That had a Skyride affiliate as a Member) made the decision to settle this case without approval from the BOD and then did a good job of convincing people that they had to because of Jan. The Filed court documents and Judges Ruling do not support that at all if you read them.

Skyride made 8 Claims against the USPA. The Judge dismessed 4 of those claims. The remaining claims that the judge let stand had absoluetly NOTHING to do Jan or any of her actions. It was because of the alledged actions of other members of the BOD. Read the Ruling.

thanks buddy.

well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

[tbrown 26]

I'm disappointed with the appallingly low participation in the election. The number of members who actually voted was just pathetic, regardless of what they thought about the "Old Guard" or the "Red Bull Kids".

Personally, I voted for some of the RBK's, they do represent the latest and freshest ideas and the direction the sport WILL go sooner or later. I'm really sorry Krisanne lost, she really has a lot to offer and I'd like to encourage her to keep trying in another two years. Maybe by then her jump numbers will be high enough to impress the people who care about that sort of thing.

I'm sorry to see Jan Meyer go as well. I voted for her myself and I find it ironic that after her attempted impeachment ignited so much of last year's controversy that she'd be turned out by such a small voting minority among the membership.

All of this is what happens when people are content to sit on their laurels and not vote.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[peek 21]

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You mean the person who rallied a skydiving organization to monitor the business practices of a company, getting said organization into a lawsuit, and then single handedly forced a settlement so that the USPA could continue to exist?

Thanatos340 was kind enough to post links to the legal documents related to that case (a few posts up from this one). Have you had a chance to look at them?

[Scrumpot 1]

People don't truly care to be actually (and ACCURATELY) informed Gary. C'mon now - you've been around here long enough you should know this is nothing new. And instead of getting INFORMED, most would rather still, indescriminately flap their UNINFORMED gums, and show their ignorance.

I guess I'm glad to see that there are still at least a few out there, even if it is against all odds, who at least continue to try to educate (the deaf dumb and blind sometimes) masses. My hat's off to you sir, for your resiliency and tenacity. It's more than I've got.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Halfpastniner 0]

Ok Gary, then who was it?

Who decided that the USPA should kick out Slyride?

Who opened up the USPA to the liability?

Open my eyes.

The legal documents dont show what happened before the lawsuit. Someone (or several) fucked up and decided it was the USPA's place to intervene, and Slyride took it as th opportunity they needed to sue the shit out of us. So please, fill me in.

If you cant post it here because of your standing feel free to pm me.

-Conor

BASE 1384

[pilotdave 0]

USPA's decision to kick them out was one of the great moments in recent skydiving history. Turned out to be a big mistake, of course. Heard from a BOD member very soon after the lawsuit was filed that USPA was fucked.

I don't know who made the decision, but good for them for having some balls.

Dave

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Ok Gary, then who was it?

Who decided that the USPA should kick out Slyride?

Who opened up the USPA to the liability?

Open my eyes.

The legal documents dont show what happened before the lawsuit. Someone (or several) fucked up and decided it was the USPA's place to intervene, and Slyride took it as th opportunity they needed to sue the shit out of us. So please, fill me in.

If you cant post it here because of your standing feel free to pm me.

-Conor

Many people do not know how Butler, Quattrocchi and their 3 DZs were thrown out of USPA. Before any investigation was made by USPA, the President, Glenn Bangs, held an AFFCC at ASC Feb 14-20, 2005. Mike Gruwell told me that Bangs stayed at the home of Butler during this course. Bangs told me at the winter 2005 meeting that he and Butler were ‘long time friends’. On April 8, 2005 there were 3 posts on dropzone.com that solicited money for Glenn Bangs. I am not sure there is a conspiracy between Bangs and Butler, but it is certainly within the realm of possibilities. Several people from the Atlanta area have alluded to a conspiracy theory. At the time it always looked strange to me, but in hindsight it actually does make sense, but I do not know if it is true or not. Let’s move on the facts that I absolutely, positively know about.

On April 5, 2005 Bangs with the help of Ed Scott tasked the southeast regional director, Richard Schachner, to investigate Butler, Quattrocchi and their DZ at Cedartown, GA. On April 29, 2005 Schachner reported that there was not sufficient evidence to revoke their memberships. Bangs did not like this finding. The executive committee voted 4 to 1 to continue the formal disciplinary action. Bangs unilaterally assigned national director Max Cohn to investigate the situation. Cohn was brand new to the BOD and it seemed strange to many of us that a very new board member would be assigned to this controversial task. Bangs was the sole person that made this assignment. There was no interim motion by the executive committee and no discussion with the full board. Cohn was directed to NOT give an opinion one way or another removing their memberships.

The way formal disciplinary actions work is that the RD or someone appointed conducts an investigation and sends a letter to the alleged wrong-doers telling them what the charges and specifications are and inviting them to the next BOD meeting. Unknown to the rest of the BOD at the summer 2005 meeting, this was not done for Quattrocchi and Butler. This was highly irregular. By the time formal disciplinary actions come before the board, the procedures that include informing the accused, are performed by the RD or designee. This was NOT done and Cohn was directed not to do it. This was a major mistake by USPA. The mistake rests squarely on the shoulders of the President. Most of the rest of the board, including myself, only found out about this when the lawsuit was filed in October 2005. Actually, some board members never read the complaint and still do not know the details of the complaint.

In addition to the requisite letters not being sent to Quattrocchi and Butler, Cohn was never directed to investigate their 3 DZs. This was also not known to the rest of the board at the summer 2005 meeting. At the time these DZs were in Cedartown, GA, Pell City, AL and Pennridge, PA. At a meeting of the executive committee, the President made a motion to expel the three DZs from the Group Member program. I asked the Director of Group Membership, Ed Scott, about this. He told me that there is a clause that allowed either side (USPA or the DZ) to terminate the GM contract. What he failed to tell me was that it required a 30-day notice. I learned that on the Monday after the meeting and then wrote the President and Secretary about my concerns about this issue. I asked that an interim motion be conducted to change the date on the motion passed at the meeting. The date was changed but there was never any interim motion. I even inquired about it again shortly before the winter 2006 meeting. The Secretary told me that there was no interim motion.

In a nutshell, Butler, Quattrocchi and their DZs were improperly thrown out of USPA. This had nothing to do with the actual vote count, but was related to the procedures, detailed in Sec. 1-6 of the USPA Governance Manual, that were NOT followed by the persons involved in the investigation of alleged wrong-doings.

A week or so after the summer 2005 meeting Bangs went to the DZ at Pennridge and solicited their staff to work at Crosskeys. Bangs was subsequently dismissed by Crosskeys for this action.

Leading up to the expulsion of Quattrocchi, Butler and their DZs, several people told me about night tandem jumps being conducted at ASC, but no one brought forth any tangible evidence. Richard did not know about this either. This evidence did come forward, to me, on March 19, 2008 in the form of two photographs of Mike Gruwell doing a night tandem jump at ASC.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[BillyVance 34]

Great post Jan. I would have thought you'd have removed the gag from your mouth in your avatar by now.

From what you're saying, basically, is that Glenn Bangs has been in bed with Skyride all along, and that he bungled the procedures to kick them out of USPA on purpose so that it would give them the edge to sue their way back in? I mean, he wouldn't have initiated the complaints about them but when the complaints came in, he can't just ignore them right? So he sabotaged the due process. Nice.... I fully believe they paid him off.

Glenn Bangs needs to be removed from any capacity he serves on the BOD or EC, IMHO.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Capt.Slog 0]

Fascinating.

Thanks, Jan.

[diablopilot 2]

Thanks for your input Jan.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BillyVance 34]

The silence in here is deafening.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[labrys 0]

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The silence in here is deafening.

The discussion in here is meaningless.

Owned by Remi #?

[peek 21]

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The discussion in here is meaningless.

Seems rather meaningful to me, dear! Jan went way out of her way to explain things to you, and other USPA members willing to read and learn. She will continue to do that regardless of how a few members continue to bash her.

Huh, I had to check to see what thread we were in.
I'm beginning to see a pattern.....

[MakeItHappen 15]

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The silence in here is deafening.

The discussion in here is meaningless.

The entertainment value of DZ.com is always amazing.

This has got to be the funniest post I've read in a long time.
In context, it is hysterical. In an absolute context of DZ.com, it is hysterical.

Please, please someone put "The discussion in here is meaningless. - Labrys" as their sig block.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[labrys 0]

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Please, please someone put "The discussion in here is meaningless. - Labrys" as their sig block.

I'd be quite honored, dear... if you'd do it yourself. Why ask someone else to do it? Are you not capable?

The elections are over. The elected are elected. The unelected are well.... unelected. Some are happy, some are not.

Nothing posted here will change the results of the election. My opinion is meaningless to you. Your opinion is meaningless to me. Our opinions don't mean anything to anyone else.

Meaningless. Nothing more or less.

I'll wait for your new sig line but I won't hold my breath.

Owned by Remi #?

[popsjumper 2]

Evidently, your definition of "meaningless" is somewhat different than mine.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DanG 1]

So I'm supposed to believe that the whole Skyride thing was planned from the start? What, exactly, was gained by the conspirators? Conspiracy needs a motive, usually financial. I fail to see how anyone benefited from this plot. It seems both parties (Skyride and Bangs) would have been better served if Bangs just arranged to sweep criticism under the rug. If he's capable of pulling off the elobarate plot described in your post, certainly he's capable of quelling internal dissent. Sorry, it seems a bit of a stretch.

And if you really believe what you're implying, you need to go speak with your local US Attorney. What you're describing is felony conspiracy. If this is all true, you can get rid of Glen Bangs once and for all by turning state's evidence.

And no, I have no involvement with Glen Bangs or Skyride.

- Dan G

[johndh1 0]

All I see that she did was state facts which she can easily prove. IF there was a plot, it doesn't appear too elaborate.

The only thing I can definitely come up with in reading these facts is it's either conspiracy or blatant stupidity.

Considering the participants, I'm equally torn between the two explanations.

Roll Tide Roll