newbie Q

[Superman32 0]

I was just reading the malfunction thread and it just occured to me that we are taught to wait 5 sec after you pull and then you look up (I cheat and watch the canopy inflate). Couldn't the 5 sec count be a lot of wasted time with a bag lock mal?

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[MarkM 0]

A thousand feet. But that's why you pull at 5k, no?

[2cmyzx 0]

I went through the IAD course and the way it was explained to me was that after you leave the strut to count to 5 and check, arch thousand, two thousand..ect. They told me that perception of time in that first jump can differ alot from jumper to jumper, so after 5 seconds you should have a canopy over your head, if you do not go to emergency procedures. They told me that 1 or 2 seconds could possibly seem like a long time and if not for the 5 count, students would be cutting away canopies that just havent opened yet.

[Shark 0]

So you watch your canopy inflate, right? Are you visually able to tell the difference between a bag lock and other malfunctions? You should be. One reason you are counting is to give your canopy adequate time to inflate. Ask "your" instructors for proper procedures.

Shark
AFF-I

[Superman32 0]

The question is not whether I can recognize the malfunction. What I'm wondering is why students aren't told to watch the canopy inflate. If someone waits 5 sec to b/f looking up and identifying this high speed malfunction a good deal of altitude has already been lost.
Before people get flamed, I'm just curious. I'm in no way saying anything is better/worse/right or wrong. I don't know anything about skydiving just trying to learn

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[Andrewwhyte 1]

One reason is to keep yourself square into the relative wind during inflation. This allows your canopy to open as it is intended. Sometimes your canopy opens abnormally quickly. If your head is turned to one side on that day you will have a very sore neck.
If you are waiting five seconds I am presuming you are doing low level (not AFF jumps). If you are at terminal velocity when you dump, most people wait a bit less time than that because you are right, at terminal, a lot of altitude would be consumed.

[AFFI 0]

When you throw your pilot chute start counting, yes.

But in a nornal opening how long does it take before you start feeling something?

[Orange1 0]

Quote

If you are waiting five seconds I am presuming you are doing low level (not AFF jumps). If you are at terminal velocity when you dump, most people wait a bit less time than that because you are right, at terminal, a lot of altitude would be consumed.

my (newbie) experience - on the SL jumps you count to 5 seconds for same reason mentioned as per IAD above. (It's uncanny how many people have said that they are SURE the 2nd SL jump took much longer for the chute to open... hmmm, I suspect it's just perception)
but once on freefall even at low altitudes the count goes pull000, 5000, check - so only 2 seconds to start checking (check is also turning head to clear burble)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[BenediktDE 2]

Quote

(I cheat and watch the canopy inflate)

Looking into the opening is not the most healthy thing to do for your neck. My Instructor told me to look forward and bend my knees a bit in order to get as few stress on my spine as possible.
Maybe ask your instructor about it?

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[MarkM 0]

Quote

The question is not whether I can recognize the malfunction. What I'm wondering is why students aren't told to watch the canopy inflate. If someone waits 5 sec to b/f looking up and identifying this high speed malfunction a good deal of altitude has already been lost.
Before people get flamed, I'm just curious. I'm in no way saying anything is better/worse/right or wrong. I don't know anything about skydiving just trying to learn

Because a lot of students don't know what they're doing and need basic simple instructions they can remember after a brain locked skydive that won't cause them to get themselves into any more trouble.

Tell a student to watch the canopy inflate and they may get confused and cut away a good canopy while it's sniveling or something(heck, some students have been known to cut away from simple line twists).

You're pulling at 5-6k, you have plenty of altitude to give your canopy a full 5 seconds to inflate. When you get experienced enough to be pulling at lower altitudes, you'll have a feel for the deployment and will probably know something is wrong within a couple seconds without having to count or look.

[Nutz 0]

I saw a student who had done nothing but tandems cut away a perfectly good canopy because it wasn't big enough. He said the reserve wasn't big enough either but he couldn't cut that one away.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Ask "your" instructors for proper procedures.

Maybe the best suggestion posted so far - Ask your instructors... Hmmmm, What a concept...

[riggerrob 643]

I'm wondering is why students aren't told to watch the canopy inflate.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Because the first few seconds of the inflation process occur behind your head, where you can't see it.
Then line stretch tends to push your head down, making it difficult to look up at a partially inflated canopy.
Finally, telling students to count to 5 is a way of "dumbing down" emergency procedures for students who are scared stiff and not capable of anything more than the simplest of rote tasks.

[billvon 3,058]

>Couldn't the 5 sec count be a lot of wasted time with a bag lock mal?

Yes.

Student procedures are intentionally simplified for training purposes; that's one reason they pull so high. If you pull by 3500 feet (i.e. you pull 8 seconds late on an AFF) _and_ you have a baglock, _and_ you take 5 seconds to count, _and_ you take 5 seconds to react to the obvious mal - you're still OK. You open a bit low, but you're OK.

Some other factors that influence the 5 second thing:

-Most students count fast.

-If you looked behind you immediately after pulling, you would see first a baglock, then a snivel, then a stuck slider, then a good open canopy during a normal opening. To prevent a student from looking at a normal opening and thinking "Shit! Baglock! Cut away" some schools use the 5 second rule.

-5 seconds is easy to remember.

Once students graduate, they often have to modify their reserve procedures slightly to work with their preferred style of jumping. Perhaps some will decide to go straight for reserve during a PC in tow, or will decide to use the one-handle-one-hand method instead of the two-hands-per-handle method. Once they graduate they are in a better position to decide what's best for them.

[lowie 0]

Just a thought but getting you to count up to 5000 may be to keep you cool. You may find you count a lot faster than 5 secs. Just MHO