GeorgeOrwell 0 #1 January 3, 2009 Hi All Here I sit with a major problem. I don't know what I should do next. I don't know if I want to even skydive anymore. This problem is going to break me financially and emotionally. Two years ago I bought another rig on e-bay. This would be my second rig purchased on e-bay no problems with the first. Ok here is what happened. I found a low jump mirage g4 with a nitron 150 smart reserve and cypress 2. All for $4100 bucks. I checked the rigs ser# it was not stolen. Well I sent the money out and the rig was at my door stop 4 days later. I jumped the rig for awhile as this was my second rig. Well jump numbers started going down. So I decided to sell one of the rigs. I took the nitron and put it in my old mirage g3 and took my sabre 2 150 and put it in the new g4. I then sold my g3 rig to a friend at the DZ. Ok here comes the problem. I needed to get a repack and my 4 year cypress check. When it was sent in they did a standard background check. And guess what the cypress was reported stolen. Well my rigger checked on this and yes it was stolen along with the main and reserve. But the container which I checked to see if it was stolen was not stolen and was the only part of my rig that was not stolen. So I call the person who had reported it stolen over 4 years ago. (And by the way it is not listed on this site's stolen gear list or is it on USPA's web site) Ok here is another kicker for you all. The gear is not stolen but the gear store let this guy use a stolen credit card to purchase the gear. I guess someone did not call in for an authorization code. I sent a copy of the ebay stuff to the gear store along with a copy of the cleared check to prove when I bought it. So what do I do? I think I should get a lawyer (and I have no idea how much that will cost) because if I send all the gear back I don' think the gear store will help me find this guy. Also if the gear store gets their gear back and the guy who used the stolen card got my money, the only loser in this whole deal would be me. I bought this gear in March of 2006. If anyone has some back issue's of parachutist and can check to see if there is a nitron 150 160 smart reserve on that list because I don't even think this gear was listed at that time so how would I know if it was stolen or not. Thanks for all your help Eric-------------------------------------------------- If your not jumping your not living LEARN TO LIVE (L2L) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2cmyzx 0 #2 January 3, 2009 I wouldnt send it back. This gear was not stolen, this is credit card fraud Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #3 January 3, 2009 QuoteThis gear was not stolen, this is credit card fraud The gear was "stolen" from the credit card company assuming they covered the unauthorized purchase. The gear probably belongs to the credit card company's insurance company now. Perhaps they could be contacted to see what they would like to do with it. They may be willing to simply let you keep it.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martlet 0 #4 January 3, 2009 QuoteQuoteThis gear was not stolen, this is credit card fraud The gear was "stolen" from the credit card company assuming they covered the unauthorized purchase. The gear probably belongs to the credit card company's insurance company now. Perhaps they could be contacted to see what they would like to do with it. They may be willing to simply let you keep it. This. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #5 January 3, 2009 Hi Eric. I am familiar with the equipment, it belongs to a freind of mine who is the dealer. As a rigger he asked me to keep an eye out for it so anytime I got a smart reserve, nitron main, or cypres 2 I always checked the SN. This gear was listed on the USPA stolen gear list although I don't see it there now, also it was listed on the Skydive Orange website at one time because it was sold to a jumper in that area. The gear was paid for with a stolen credit card and it was shipped before the dealer realized it was stolen. I don't think the card was reported stolen until it was too late. The credit card company may have reimbersed the card holder but the dealer never got paid and he is out the gear. That equipment is most definetly stolen. That really sucks, I realize that you did not steal the gear but you bought it from someone who did. Just imagine how you would feel if it was your gear and you got ripped off for several thousand dollars. Sorry, but the right thing to do is to return it to the rightful owner. I guarantee you he wants to track down the thief and bring him to justice. Even if he gets it back he will take a huge loss on it. That gear was new when shipped but now several years later it has been jumped who knows how many times. The cypres goes down in value over time. If you bought it on ebay maybe you should see if they have some way of tracking down the seller. I do believe they have a security system to protect people who unknowingly buy stolen merchandise. Maybe file a claim if you used paypal? This story is a perfect example why all serial numbers should be checked anytime you buy used gear. On all components. Bummer dude, Do the right thing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BUBLHED 0 #6 January 3, 2009 I would think that the dealer would have filed a claim on there insurance to recover some or all of there loss. If it was me I would call them and tell them what has happened, including faxing them your Ebay records. They will most likely be able to work something out with you. The gear has lost significant value and they (if having recieved an insurance claim) would benefit from working a deal that you both can live with. Good Luck!!! Ps, If they do work it out I'm sure that you'll let us all know about it on here. That would really say alot for them and would be good advertisement for there business.ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWernig 0 #7 January 4, 2009 I agree with this...... but I still find myself thinking- you say how much stolen gear sucks, then say that he should get the butt end of it. You take on the problem so my friend doesn't. Yet I still agree that the right thing to do is return it (which puts him without gear.) This is a shitty scenario to be in. Moral= check numbers on all used gear! Just thinking out loud.Nathan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Braz933 0 #8 January 4, 2009 QuoteI wouldnt send it back. This gear was not stolen, this is credit card fraud I agree. For starters, the gear was bought with a stolen card 4 years ago. (I would be interested in knowing how the sale was made...in store or over the internet). The OP bought the gear USED over 2 years ago. There is no way to tell how many times this gear has been bought and sold. It is even possible that the ebay seller was not the person who committed the original fraudulent purchase from the dealer. As far as catching the original culprit, that is simply not going to happen. The dealer and the credit card company have insurance, and other ways to recover from this type of loss(write off), which by now they certainly have done. That said, I don't think it would be reasonable for the dealer to expect the gear to be returned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #9 January 4, 2009 QuoteThe dealer and the credit card company have insurance, and other ways to recover from this type of loss Ummmm... the "other ways" that credit card companies and insurance agencies have to recover are to raise rates. That means that you, me, and everyone else pay more out of pocket if we want to use their services. Are you suggesting that it's okay for someone to steal as long as the cost of the theft is distributed amongst a lot of people but not okay if it just affects one person? And no, I'm not suggesting that the OP stole anything. I think he shows a lot of backbone by simply asking his question here and I truly hope things work out for him.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgeOrwell 0 #10 January 4, 2009 Hi All Well just some quick updates I did not want to use the gear store's name but if you just say the letter I recieved trust me You would post the letter Trust me when I say I want to do the right thing But all I see is the right thing is going to cost me alot. So now I have been told the gear shop is going to call the FBI and I did send a e-mail back to him saying go ahead and call them and when they show up at my door or call I will give the gear to them at that time But till then I will contact a lawyer on Monday and see what my options are and what the lawyer says to do I will do. So it's pay a lawyer 500bucks for a chance or give it to the dealer and no chance Once again thanks to all Eric W Blair And please all use my problem as a warning and check and recheck all things you buy-------------------------------------------------- If your not jumping your not living LEARN TO LIVE (L2L) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #11 January 4, 2009 Quotewhen they show up at my door or call I will give the gear to them at that time If they take the gear away then send me a PM. I'll chip in a few bucks to help replace your stuff. Is anyone else reading this willing to help?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgeOrwell 0 #12 January 4, 2009 Thanks and blue skies to you That is very nice of you But the real problem is I'm now being treated like a thief, and that I don't like. I really hate the way I'm being treated when all I did was go on e-bay and bought a rig which I payed for with cash that I went to work and earned-------------------------------------------------- If your not jumping your not living LEARN TO LIVE (L2L) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #13 January 4, 2009 QuoteBut the real problem is I'm now being treated like a thief, and that I don't like. I really hate the way I'm being treated when all I did was go on e-bay and bought a rig which I payed for with cash that I went to work and earned You and the original gear dealer got screwed. Not everyone thinks you're a thief. I'm hoping that there are other people reading this thread that are willing to ante up a jump ticket or two to express some thanks for your honesty.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #14 January 4, 2009 QuoteThe credit card company may have reimbersed the card holder but the dealer never got paid and he is out the gear. That equipment is most definetly stolen. Out of curiosity... if the dealer didn't get paid then why/how/what was the cardholder "reimbersed" for?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #15 January 4, 2009 If the Gear Shop isn't treating you right, then you have no reason to do so to them either.... but I wouldn't do anything until talking to a lawyer. This stinks - sorry that you're having to go through this. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #16 January 4, 2009 when speaking to the gear shop. Did they put a claim in to the insurance company? If they didn't , Why not? The credit card company reimburse them? Or just refuse to release the money to the gear shop? I understand that the gear shop is upset but for them to threaded to call the FBI is retarded. You didn't give them the stolen credit card MY 2 centsNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Braz933 0 #17 January 4, 2009 ------------- Ummmm... the "other ways" that credit card companies and insurance agencies have to recover are to raise rates. That means that you, me, and everyone else pay more out of pocket if we want to use their services. ------------- Insurance companies are in the gambling business. They take the premiums we pay, and use that money to make more money, hoping they never have to pay out a claim. They know the game they are playing. My insurance went down quite a bit recently, and it is not because there were less people crashing or stealing cars in recent years. It was due to changes in the law that allowed for more competition in the insurance industry where I live. ------------ Are you suggesting that it's okay for someone to steal as long as the cost of the theft is distributed amongst a lot of people but not okay if it just affects one person? ------------ Not at all. I am saying that the original theft\fraud took place 4 years ago. Any chance to catch the guilty party has long since passed. Most likely, the dealer has recovered most, or all of his loss. The dealer should realize the OP had nothing to do with the original incident, and cut him some slack...given the OP has no way to recover a loss in this situation. If I were the dealer, that is what I would do. If the time frame was shorter (say this scenario played out over a few months rather than 4 years) then my opinion would be different. ------------ And no, I'm not suggesting that the OP stole anything. I think he shows a lot of backbone by simply asking his question here and I truly hope things work out for him ------------ As do I. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #18 January 4, 2009 QuoteIf the Gear Shop isn't treating you right, then you have no reason to do so to them either.... Bullshit. The idea that if one person (or company) does the wrong thing that gives another the excuse to do the wrong thing is.. well... bullshit.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #19 January 4, 2009 this situation stinks as at the very least it is causing a lot of headaches. I do know that as a vendor, taking credit cards comes with certain responsibility - such as it being the VENDORS risk when the product is shipped anywhere but the billing address. I would love to know what the attorney(s) say. And yeah, I would be happy to pitch a little in to cover the costs. And personally, I do not think of the OP as a thief - he is just a victim of very unfortunate events. The only thief is the person who deliberately used a stolen CC to purchase the goods. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Braz933 0 #20 January 4, 2009 QuoteSo now I have been told the gear shop is going to call the FBI and I did send a e-mail back to him saying go ahead and call them and when they show up at my door or call I will give the gear to them at that time You are doing the right thing by getting a lawyer. However, the FBI is not going to spend one minute of their time on this. They will refer the gear shop to the local police. What happens next depends on a bunch of variables, so I won't bother to speculate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #21 January 4, 2009 Maybe BS to you but if some one treats me badly (especially for no good reason), I owe them nothing - nada, zip, bugger all. You're welcome to disagree, I'll let you (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Braz933 0 #22 January 4, 2009 Quote I do know that as a vendor, taking credit cards comes with certain responsibility - such as it being the VENDORS risk when the product is shipped anywhere but the billing address. This is also why I think the dealer should cut the OP some slack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #23 January 4, 2009 Quote I'll let you You are very sadly mistaken.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nomal2day 0 #24 January 4, 2009 Edited to remove indications of strong feelings of support for a fellow skydiver, which were less supportive and more flamelike... Just the bit about the FBI really got my goat Eric, I hope it works out ok with you and that fella! Blues (Take deep cleansing breath and go to fridge...) 'To fly is heaven, to freefall is divine' 'You only need 2 tools. WD40 for when it doesn't move but should, and duct tape for when it moves but shouldn't' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #25 January 4, 2009 Just wondering...you gotta valid bill of sale right? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
