taylor.freefall 0 #1 January 13, 2009 I was exploring my canopy after a few months lay off and pulled my toggles down as much as I could but didn't get near what I thought would be stall point. The ride was very mushy and slow. I'm wondering if the toggles need adjusting, the flare on landing seems normal, or what I've experienced with other canopies, maybe a tad less, but not greatly. Am I over analyzing things?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 7 #2 January 13, 2009 What canopy are you jumping and what's the wing loading? How far did you pull the toggles and how long did you keep them there? Did you look up at the canopy during the deep brake flight? If so what did the canopy look like? I hope you are doing all this well above 2000 feet. That should be your had deck for this kind of flight manuevering.Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taylor.freefall 0 #3 January 13, 2009 QuoteWhat canopy are you jumping and what's the wing loading? How far did you pull the toggles and how long did you keep them there? Did you look up at the canopy during the deep brake flight? If so what did the canopy look like? I hope you are doing all this well above 2000 feet. That should be your had deck for this kind of flight manuevering. Oh yes, I pulled @ 5k, and normally pull @ 4.5k, my decision alt is 2.5k. I had a Sabre 2, 230, WL around 1.04:1. I pulled the toggles down between my legs to near where my zipper is and held it there for around 10/15 seconds or so. Looking up the canopy looked like it was close to what I think is stall point and definitely looks like what I think it should do in deep brakes (everything normal looking). I hope I'm not creating a problem that isn't there... I never really thought about it until I came home and sat down. Of course if I can improve anything that can help... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 3 #4 January 13, 2009 QuoteOh yes, I pulled @ 5k, and normally pull @ 4.5k, my decision alt is 2.5k. I had a Sabre 2, 230, WL around 1.04:1. I pulled the toggles down between my legs to near where my zipper is and held it there for around 10/15 seconds or so. Looking up the canopy looked like it was close to what I think is stall point and definitely looks like what I think it should do in deep brakes (everything normal looking). I hope I'm not creating a problem that isn't there... I never really thought about it until I came home and sat down. Of course if I can improve anything that can help... If you want to get the best advice first-hand (based on your flying of your specific canopy), get hooked up with a quality canopy piloting course. Personally, I had the same issue when flying a Navigator at 1.03:1. By making my flare stroke faster, I was able to generate a dynamic stall. Trust me, you will know when you've stalled the canopy. It might look like a donut and feel like stepping backward into an open elevator shaft. The most important thing to learn about the stall is how to correctly recover. Listen to your instructors carefully. *I don't know squat. You may die. Nobody should ever do what I do, what I have done, or what I discuss. I am very likely full of crap, etc., etc.SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ASTKU 1 #5 January 13, 2009 I am not qualified to answer this question.......but will anyway From my experience/research if you are flying a lightly wingloaded canopy you should not necessarily be able to stall the canopy without taking some wraps (wrapping your hands around the toggles to get more flare). I just started jumping a Storm190 loaded at 1.1 and I can't stall the canopy without taking at least one wrap. I actually shortened the steering lines a lot from factory setting.... Its nice to know I can't stall the canopy. I like the fact that if shit happens and I flare way to high I can just hold it and float down.... Its also great for setting myself in the pattern so I don't land right after or before someone else. Learn your canopy. Find out how much it takes for you to make the canopy start to respond from toggle input. It takes me only about 2 inches to start getting input.... Once I started doing research about different canopies I realized that I was jumping my spectre210 with the lines too short. So under full flight I was actually slightly braking. That killed some of my flare power.... Call PD and talk to them yourself if you won't the people that designed the canopies opinion. They're awesome.... [/url]http://www.performancedesigns.com/contact.asp[url] Just my two cents. Sorry to ramble. Good luck!! BlueSkies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #6 January 13, 2009 *I don't know squat. You may die. Nobody should ever do what I do, what I have done, or what I discuss. I am very likely full of crap, etc., etc. that made my night...thanks D. DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #7 January 13, 2009 http://performancedesigns.com/products.asp?product=sa A couple good articles already published about the Sabre 2 by the manufacturer. The flight characteristics say that it is normal not to be able to stall the larger models. there you go, read and learn from the people that built it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #8 January 13, 2009 A stall at full arm extension is the last thing I want my canopy to do. But then, I'm a conservative old fart.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaRusic 0 #9 January 13, 2009 QuoteA stall at full arm extension is the last thing I want my canopy to do. But then, I'm a conservative old fart. I agree, i cant stall my sabre unless i take a wrap and that does not bother me one bit I was practicing doing some flying on a lightning since i wanna get into some crew in the future and i did a few practice flares up high and stalled it, scared the shit outa me haha....but training kicked in and did a nice stall recovery and all was goodThe Altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel not in the plane are totally worthless Dudeist Skydiver # 10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt002 0 #10 January 13, 2009 I wouldn't take wraps in your brake lines, especially if you are trying to stall you canopy as that can lead to an 'unrecoverable situation' if the stall is held for a while. You should be able to release your toggles easily to cutaway from your main should you need to. There should be some slack in your brake lines with arms up, thats normal. Slow flight will feel mushey as you describe. You have now learnt where your 100% flare is so try to make sure you fly you canopy all the way to this point and your landings will improve especially on nil wind days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 3 #11 January 19, 2009 Quote *I don't know squat. You may die. Nobody should ever do what I do, what I have done, or what I discuss. I am very likely full of crap, etc., etc. that made my night...thanks D. What'd you expect me to say? I'm a 3-1/2 dozen jump one-durr. SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
