Atempting freeflying before having an A license

[Foursprouts 0]

I know it is something that takes time to learn but is it dangerous to attempt sit, stand and head down using a rip cord rig. I know some are not safe as they have an exposed bridal but the one I am jumping does not, it is a vector container with a rip cord. I will soon be converted to a throw away rig and know that once on that it would not be safe. I expect that I will just end up all over the sky but still want to give it a go. Is it more dangerous also because the canopy is a Manta 240 (I think). Is there something else I should consider. I understand about freefall drift and that sort of thing as have been around DZ's for ages but have only just started jumping.

[AggieDave 6]

As I tell my students who ask me similar questions, I'll give you a similar answer since its still true.

Go spend 50-100 jumps working on your RW skill. That RW skill will help you immensly, much more then you think AND you'll gain much more air awareness which will help you learn how to FF in less jumps. Not only that but better air awareness will help you advance much more quickly in FFing as well.

Not only that, but canopy sizes don't matter for FFing, FF safe containers do! Firstly, its not your gear, are you prepared to pay for new gear if you screw it up due to a premie opening at 170mph? Are you willing to die or become seriously injured, giving your DZ a bad name in the press and with the public, if you have a premie on non-FF safe gear?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Zoter 0]

Aggie Dave speaketh the truth.....
There are just a couple of more important things (at your level) to think about before learning freeflying......really...not being argumentative....but as I said...AgieDave speaketh the truth...

[AndyMan 7]

At Chicagoland, we teach a basic introduction to freeflying after their Category H jumps, but before they've accumulated enough time to qualify for the 'A' license. Taking students on their first sitfly jump is great fun... I always bring all my cameras!

Having a safe container is critical. Ripcord gear is a no-no, so is any gear that uses old velcro to keep itself closed. Wait until you can get ahold of good, relatively new BOC gear before trying freeflying.

Without a doubt, if you want to be a good freeflyer, you also have to be good on your belly. Don't neglect that, because you don't think it's cool.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Foursprouts 0]

Thanks. I will wait until I have a few more jumps under my belt and on safe gear. Just out of curiosity, why is rip cord gear bad to FF on? I know I have alot to learn and I know trying too be cool gets people killed, that was not my motive, it just looks like fun.

[billvon 2,991]

>Just out of curiosity, why is rip cord gear bad to FF on?

It's not. In some ways it's safer - no exposed bridle _or_ pilot chute. However, most ripcord rigs are student rigs, and student rigs do not (traditionally) have good pin covers, riser covers etc compared to a freefly-friendly sport rig.

[kallend 2,027]

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At Chicagoland, we teach a basic introduction to freeflying after their Category H jumps, but before they've accumulated enough time to qualify for the 'A' license. Taking students on their first sitfly jump is great fun... I always bring all my cameras!

Having a safe container is critical. Ripcord gear is a no-no, so is any gear that uses old velcro to keep itself closed. Wait until you can get ahold of good, relatively new BOC gear before trying freeflying.

Without a doubt, if you want to be a good freeflyer, you also have to be good on your belly. Don't neglect that, because you don't think it's cool.

_Am

Skydive Chicago does the same. All SDC student rigs are modern, good pin and riser protection, etc.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Brian425 0]

Foursprouts,
I'm a newbie in the sport, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I jump at a big DZ with lots of Freeeflyers. I was talking with 2 of them this weekend. They both recommended at LEAST 50 RW jumps and being able to ALWAYS get to your belly and stable AT WILL. (their words). Then they said I will be ready to FF. As they explained it, you always need to get to your belly. Learning to FF you will get unstable at times. You need to get to your belly after being unstable. Also you want to be able to exit the aircraft stable. This helps in every type of jump.

Why rush? FF will stil be around in a few months. I would recommend getting good on your belly and just have fun for now. Who knows, you might like RW. The basics are so important in this sport. RW will give you a firm foundation in the basics. Hell, you might even enjoy some of those 2 and 4 ways.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[AndyMan 7]

It's not specificly the ripcord that I have objections to, it's the style of gear that was manufactured when ripcords were common. You said the gear was a Vector, but you didn't mention if it was a Vector I, II, or III. Older gear often has weak velcro and weak tuck-tabs that can contribute to premature deployments.

Premature deployments while belly-flying suck, but they can be fatal when freeflying.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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. Just out of curiosity, why is rip cord gear bad to FF on?

.

Nothing wrong with ripcords at all for any kind of skydiving. Your reserve has one, remember? However, a pull out packs flatter, leaves your hands empty during deployment, and you can use a collapsible pilot chute. That's why we don't use ripcords anymore. They are very safe, though.

[bob.dino 1]

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Premature deployments while belly-flying suck, but they can be fatal when freeflying.

They're not much fun for the cameraman in 4-way either...

[tdog 0]

Someone much wiser than I sent an e-mail to me:

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my final comment is directed at your freefly experimentation. i am a coach, and have taught at least 50 or 60 people to sitfly. my experience is that ALL of them tend to slide very badly while they pick up the skills. this makes it EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to fly alone, or without an experienced freeflyer. if you have nothing relative to you to judge your slide, and you probably don't have the skill to maintain a perpendicular to the flight line orientation, you are a hazard to yourself and other jumpers. it is easy to slide right into another's airspace without even knowing it, in a very short timespan. i have seen it many times, and it's what keeps me coaching freefly skills. i hate seeing someone experiment on their own, or with another novice, and take the time to invite them on some camera jumps to protect them, an others, from themselves.

I told the same to a 30 jump guy two weekends ago when I looked up after opening on a 4way and saw someone else above me doing the same, after his sit tracked over our group...

Just be careful and know how to be safe. I don't know much myself, so ask someone else...

[Lainey 0]

Here we're not allowed to learn to freefly without at least having a B licence (50 jumps) and our Star Crest Award. When you only have 30 or so jumps and all your friends are freeflyers with 1000 jumps it's hard to hold back and be patient because you can't go for jumps with them, I understand this because i'm still going through it. I only started freeflying about 10 jumps ago and i've picked it up okay so far, although it's tough to wait I think it's definately a good idea to have at least 50 flat jumps before trying anything else. I'm glad I waited even the 80 jumps that I did before learning head up and it'll probably be another 50 jumps before I even think about getting on my head... they're pretty big on safety when freeflying at my dz. You've got so much time ahead of you to do it all, why rush?

And you shed not a single tear for the things that you didn't need
'Cause you knew you were finally free - Death Cab For Cutie

[sukaidaiba 0]

RW with friends is great fun. no rush for FF, save it for a bit no...!

the ideal falling motion of something subject only to a gravitational field

[gordy 0]

Its all good fun, I don't see any need to rush it!

[huka551 0]

What would be some fun things to do belly flying, to specifically learn more air awarness? I hear everyone saying 50 plus jumps before attempting freeflyng, but what are some things to do in those jumps? (specifically if your not jumping with someone else)

Muff Brother 3723

[peregrinerose 0]

I'm a newbie and need to do a check dive before I have my A (Freaking weather...) so this is just my personal opinion and means absolute shit. Consider this my disclaimer.

I feel that to start on 3D flying, it is important to master or at least be reasonably proficient at 2D flying. There are so many body parts that need to be coordinated for flying in general. Take one step at a time.

My husband has 50+ jumps and does dabble in freeflying. Considering he can't do RW worth shit, I think he should work on that first. But again, what I think doesn't matter!
Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[sukaidaiba 0]

Talk to people at your DZ, people will do RW with you even freeflyers, then u can have a laugh and learn.
PLus theres usually someone organising RW groups at the average DZ

the ideal falling motion of something subject only to a gravitational field

[plowdirt 0]

I'll agree w/ AD, workk on basic skills. But, on the other hand, there was a girl who I came up with during AFF and she was doing FF with one of her coaches during AFF, and I'm sure that too.. Later it became common knowledge. Any way she really good at about 1.5/2 yrs into the skills, This is not a good idea for all though we are all different.

Don't try FF with student rigs!!! Maybe one lesson you wished you didn't have to learn.

Be safe out there.

[MarkM 0]

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What would be some fun things to do belly flying, to specifically learn more air awarness? I hear everyone saying 50 plus jumps before attempting freeflyng, but what are some things to do in those jumps? (specifically if your not jumping with someone else)

I practiced full body turns, side siding and tracking(talk to an instructor before you do a track jump on a load, you can endanger other people easily). Then before starting freefly I learned how to fly on my hands and knees in a stable almost balled position. That got me used to flying in unstable positions and made it more natural to revert into a ball if things went bad on a freefly. Also did a lot of fun exists, cannon balls, spirals, jackknifes.

You should really do some jumps with other people on RW though. Doing that will tell you if you're sliding and let you practice height control.

[flyboy62000 0]

There are some good points here on starting freeflying. My opinion is that as long as your gear is capable of flying in alternate body positions it would be good to experiment. While trying to fly relative in a freefly environment would not be the best thing. I think that experimenting with controlling your body on your back and other body positions will increase your freefall awareness as to how you can control yourself in various positions and recover from those positions to a stable belly position. I would work on relativity with another experienced jumper, practice diving to the other jumper on exit to form a two way, work on adjusting freefall speed for relativity, turning precisely on headings, practice tracking, recovering from unusual body positions, practicing maintaining control in unusual body positions, etc. All of these things will help you become more aware of what is happening during the entire freefall experience. After opening, work on your canopy skills setting up a good approach and an accurate landing. Strive for improvement on every jump in at least one area and you will learn a great deal. Most importantly...Have Fun!!!

Blue Skies,
Adam
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . — Antoine de Saint-Exupéry