Someone almost hit me when i pulled. How can i avoid this?

[Newbie 0]

Ok - i had a really close call on Saturday that i didn't even know about until i landed and i would like to try and understand how this could have happened.

When i landed, a guy came up to me and said that he was approx 30 metres (his estimate) from me, and in freefall, not as i opened, but by the time i was under a full open canopy. This was a complete shock as i had not seen him at all.
The first he saw of me was when i opened and he saw my canopy fully inflated. Had i opened and either changed direction of flight, or had an opening that put my heading on a path with him, it would probably have been a post in incidents not here.

I will try to describe what happened as i did to the CCI (DZO) when i got back as i wanted to learn from this - but he had no idea how this could have happened, other than "people move about in freefall" which is true, but doesn;t help me understand what happened and how to try and prevent it in future.

I know it's hard to get an idea through a post, but i'll do my best to describe it. If i was at fault, please tell me as i don't ever want to be in a position like this again if it can be helped.

We were on a 3 way tracking dive. My friend was going to lead on his back, and was going to practice his back track, which is pretty good, but not that fast. I was going to reference the ground, and indicate corrections to the line of flight if needed. Upper winds were light, so the plane was motoring quite fast (LET turbine). Jump run heading was 130. We were the 2nd group out, and the guy who ended up very close when i dumped was doing a solo tracking practice jump, and he was out after another solo tracker, who was out directly after us. In the plane, i told the 2 solo trackers that the first one needed to track to the right of jump run (i.e. heading approx 210) and the second soloist should then head off to the left of jump run (the same way as us) at approx 40 degrees heading, to give us maximum vertical separation. This way we would get out and track left, the next guy would go right, and the next guy would go left again.

This is where i don't understand what happened. We exited as the second group, so were going to be getting out a little short, so i wanted to take us 90 degrees off of jump run, then close the angle to about 45 degrees once we had moved safely away from jump run, so that we wouldn't move outside the cone of operation too drastically. It wasn't a fast track by any means, more medium to slow, but we were cruising across the sky quite nicely. Now at break off (about 5500ft), i was slightly high and to the left of the rabbit, the other guy was to the right of the rabbit, and the rabbit was pretty much centred. I broke slightly left, so was now at pretty much 90 degrees to jump run again, the rabbit powered straight on, and our friend turned slightly right and we split in that way to separate from one another.

The guy who i almost had the collision with was apparently tracking for 10 seconds in one direction, then turning 180 and tracking back. Now this is something i did a couple of times when i was learning, but only in Empuria, because it's so easy to take ground reference there. When i was practicing tracking doing solos at my home dz here in the UK, especially when i didnt know it too well from the air, i would track in one direction because turning and finding a ground reference when you only have a quilt of green patchwork below you and unfamiliar was always quite a challenge. Plus i knew if i tracked in one direction, while i might be further away from the dz, i would also be further away from other people and groups exiting.

Well, we broke at 5500 and i pulled just under 4k which i had told the other guys out after us we would be doing as i wanted to make sure i could make it back ok with plenty of time, and advised they might like to think about pulling slightly higher too. He dropped past me while i had a fully inflated canopy, like i said, the first he saw of me was when i was under canopy, he didnt see a wave off (which i always do) or a PC extracting, just the open canopy.

The only thing i can think of as to what happend is that he tracked above where we ended up but i don't understand how this could have happened as i was pretty careful to keep us on heading. Also, he said he gave good separation, but he didn't say in terms of distance, just time (about 5-6 seconds).

If anyone can please give me some guidance and tell me what i might have done wrong, i would be very grateful as it shook me quite a bit. I was very apologetic to the guy, and said it must have completely freaked him out, but he seemed ok, and took it well enough. I thin both of us were unsure as to who's fault this was, not that we wanted to lay blame, but just that neither of us understood it enough to know how to learn from it. I have attached an image of what i think could be the only possible cause for the close call - black line is jump run with heading and direction, red lines are the direction of flight, X = my group, Y = the solo tracker after us, Z = the tracker i almost had the incident with. The red dashed line is my flight path on break off, the blue dashed line is the rabbit at break off and the green dashed line is the 3rd guy in our formation on break off.
The solid green line is an estimate of the flight path that jumper Z made to end up where he did, and O is my opening point. This is the only thing i can assume happened. Obviously this isn't to scale, and the green solid line is just my guess as to what happened, but really, i have no clue as to his actual flight path (he did say he was turning back on himself every 10 seconds so he wouldnt track too far out).

Thanks and sorry for the lengthy post but any help on how to avoid this would be much appreciated.

Edited to add - as a resuilt of this, i now do a quick barrel roll, to check above me. I had contemplated doing this before, but read it's best not to to save some time. I think now i would rather take a second off my separation track to do this as a safety procedure to try to check the airspace directly overhead.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[piisfish 140]

3 groups tracking on the same load is not a good idea.

if the guys after you are "practicing their tracks" ... it might mean they can't really track "that well" yet...

if you have several groups tracking, do not turn towards eachother...

now I understand your graphic... YOU FLEW INTO HIM !!!

Different places, different customs... at my DZ, tracks go last... unless we have wingsuits on board...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[gus 1]

Your attached diagram is exactly the image I had in my mind when you described starting at 90 then bending it round to 45. It looks like a plausible explanation. I do quite alot of tracking so here are my thoughts, for what they're worth:

If you look at your diagram what happened is actually quite predictable. When you took the track from 90 to 45 you started to close the distance between you and the solo tracker. Don't underestimate how far you can track. Even a relatively 'casual' track can cover a lot of distance, easily enough to catch other groups. Consequently, even slight deviations in heading can have a big effect on seperation.
Organising 3 seperate tracking groups on a single pass can be difficult. Maybe have group 1 go first and left, group 2 go 2nd and right and group 3 go last? Or in the case of that particular load if you'd gone 2nd or 3rd (out of the trackers) your move to 45 wouldn't have created that situation.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[Newbie 0]

Thanks for the post - so basically what i can learn from this is:

1 - 3 groups tracking (even if 2 are solos) is just not a good idea on one load
2 - i flew into his area, so if this in a similar situation (where there ARE 3 groups tracking on the load for whatever reason) that everyone should track straight 90 degrees of jump run and keep it like that, not making changes which could end up making a situation like the one i found myself in.

Thanks for the help.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[yoink 321]

How experienced were the solo trackers? Are you sure everyone tracked where they were supposed to?

I've usually seen group tracking dives go out last - you could have got out and tracked in the direction of the run in - you may have overflown the DZ slightly, but probably not if the rabbit is tracking steep as you indicated.
If the two solos had gone our first, each tracking 90 degrees to the run in and then turning to the DZ, you might have avoided these dangers.

It's also really important not only to tell everyone at what height you're dumping, but also get their plan and for everone to stick to it. In this case, if the solo trackers plan was to pull at 3k, your exit order was probably wrong....

As an aside, trackers must be prepared to land off the DZ - the danger of getting into someone elses airspace, particularly with an inexperienced rabbit, is extremely high.

[Newbie 0]

Thanks Gus, those are all good points. So it's entirely feasible to have 3 groups tracking, you just need to break the groups up more right? Perhaps have groups one and two go out early on in the load, then group 3 go at the end (i.e. before tandems/wingsuits).

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Newbie 0]

I don't know - probably a little less than me, maybe 100 jumps a piece of something. They seemed to understand what i was saying about going right and left off jump run.

I always thought tracking on the line of flight/run in was a big no no. I know we definitely didn't do it because i took markers on the ground while we were in the door - im very careful to take markers when practicing tracking before i leave the plane.

I think you're right - rather than me casually say we are opening higher at 4k, and to advise them to do the same to make sure they have enough altitude to get back to the dz, i should have asked them when they were going to open and plan it a little more around that too. Or at least said, what my plan was, and found out if that changed their plan in terms of opening altitude etc.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[gus 1]

I don't think I've ever been on a load with 3 tracking groups but I don't think it's impossible to manage. Just talk to each other and figure out the best plan. Be realistic about people's skill levels and ability to stick to that plan. Not a dig at your group, just a general observation.

It's good that you're worried about what happened but don't stress too much. They key is (1) 'fess up and apologise, which you've done (2) figure out what happened, which you're doing (3) don't do it again, which it sounds like you won't!

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[LawnDart21 0]

"Barrell Roll or No Barrell Roll?" is a close second (only behind RSL or No RSL?) in the endless debate abyss here on dz.com...............lol

I don't know your skills, so I won't make any suggestions or recommendations regarding whether you personally should be doing barrell rolls before opening or not, I'll only ask that you perhaps search the threads on it, there are lot of good opinions & experiences on the topic. Ultimately of course, I'd say talk with your former AFF instructors about it again too, they would be in the best position to offer advice.

Lastly, the reason I mention this, 3 years ago I witnessed a 200ish jump jumper do a barrel roll before opening, go 45 degrees off his track during the role and he subsequently turned another jumpers Crossfire 119 into 2 Crossfire 59.5s, going right through it in freefall and tearing it in two. By the grace of God, no one was injured badly, but it gave alot of people pause to reflect on the topic.

Anyways, your doing the right thing, you had a close call and you are examing the situation so that you can learn from it. Can't ask for more than that.

Blue skies, Tom

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[JohnMitchell 16]

A couple of things.

One, your group did fly into the other guy's airspace. Bad plannning on your part.

Two, when you're getting down lower, few things are more important than watching out below, especially now that beginning freeflying has a lot of people scattered all over the sky. If anything is going to kill you, it will probably come from below. You can spot jumpers in freefall below you before they open their chutes if you look hard enough.

Three, the higher you are, the more time you have to wave off and look really hard to clear your back, also the more likely some one may be in freefall above you. Maybe rethink your pull altitudes if you will be in a lot of traffic.

I know it was a tracking jump, but . . . a note to beginning freeflyers. Many people tend to slide forwards and backwards when learning to free fly. I certainly did. Please try to face perpendicular to the jump run line so that you don't slide into someone else's airspace. It's always fun to meet new people, but not while deploying.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I agree. It looks like your group flew back under the jump run. Why did you not get out last (or early and first) and track 45 degrees away from the jump run for the entire dive?

[billvon 3,006]

A few comments.

1. If there is more than one tracking group, you should generally choose a direction, start out that direction, and then NOT track back. You can handle up to four groups that way. Each group picks a cardinal heading (north, south etc) and just keeps going in that direction. Needless to say, if there are four tracking groups AND other jumpers on the load, you should avoid going straight up or down jump run.

This means that you may land out. Out landings are better than freefall collisions.

2. The leader should have a plan that he sticks to and should have primary responsibility for heading. This may mean that the leader is on his belly and the backflyer has to follow him; it may mean that the backflyer has to look under himself every once in a while to verify where he's going.

3. If several groups do have to go in the same general direction, you should try to keep sight of each other. If you can't do that, due to differing fall rates or lack of skill on the parts of the jumpers on the dive - it might be better to not have so many groups on the same load.

[GravityGirl 0]

Another thing to consider for future reference is flying your canopy back up jump run.

If you have to fly back up jump run to return to your LZ, do not turn your parachute up jump run until you have spotted the groups that left behind you under open parachutes.

Many times a jumper will open and turn to fly back to he LZ. The group behind him/her may be pulling a bit lower. If you are turning up jump run to return to the LZ, you would have put yourself on a collision coarse with a body in freefall.

Food for thought.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[gemini 0]

I agree with SkyMonkeyONE, you should get out last and track up the jumprun or get out first and track down the jumprun when in a group tracking dive. Obviously you don't have to stay with the jumprun on the entire dive. For example if you got out first, and went back down the jump run (opposite direction from direction of flight), somewhere around 9K-8K you can safely turn 90 degrees to jump run. This keeps you from running under a later group and keeps you closer to the dz to minimize off landings.

Blue skies,

Jim

[lummy 4]

on another note and more of a question.

The guy mentioned that he deployed at 4k and I'm assuming that since the guy almost hit him was still in freefall he had planned on pulling lower. Would it have made sense to discuss opening altitudes with the other groups and possibly rearrange the exit order to have the higher pullers exiting later? Or is this not an issue with proper seperation?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[GravityGirl 0]

Another good point Gary.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!