CompAir jump plane

[pierre3636 0]

Has anyone heard or jumped from a Compair plane? Just fishing...

http://www.aerocompinc.com/airplanes/CA7/CA7perform.htm

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[jimmytavino 16]

never heard of it,,,,,

so never jumped out of it...

interesting website, and interesting concept...
buy ALL the parts,,,, then put it together???

even so, unless i'm missing something,,,

100 grand for the airframe kit, and another 120 grand or so,,, for the turbine,,, seems preety reasonable... IF you have the shop, the tools, and the personnel to assemble it...

read through the various pages of the website,,, to learn what is and what isn't included...

Made in the USA,,, but the engine is Czech.???

2000 feet / minute without pushing it, sounds nice, and 5000 feet/minute max...... sure sounds excting for a dz,, even if one selects a model which only carries 5 or 6 jumpers at a time ... ( usefull load 1300 lbs)

lots more feedback needed,,,,,
what are the insurance details like?????
does it have a usable door for exit???
any idea about what the planes intended purpose might be???

thanks for the link...


jimmytavino

[pierre3636 0]

one of our local dz's are looking at this plane as a possiblity for a interweek tandem airplane.

could be very interesting for smaller dz's and ill update once more is known.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[pchapman 279]

It's a homebuilt aircraft, to use the popular term, and formally should fall into the Experimental Amateur-Built registration category.

Which means generally no commercial use is allowed. (I don't know the details. Certain minor exceptions exist, such as for training pilots to convert to that type of aircraft.)

The engine is Czech just because that's a supply of well regarded turbines that are cheaper than what's available here. It's common for those engines to be used among the small circle of those who build homebuilts and can afford a turbine at all.

[kirkverner 0]

Azul Do Vento had an 8 place and 10 place version in Campinas Brazil. Much like the Helio Stallion owned by Mike Mullins.

ParacleteXP

[ZeG 0]

Sweet plane, looks a little bit like a Pilatus Porter.

[michaelmullins 81]

You cannot make an intentional parachute jump from an experimental aircraft in the USA. There are no exceptions, it is forbidden by the FAR's.

Other than that, the CompAir 7, 8, or 10 would be great jumplanes.

Mike Mullins

[pierre3636 0]

i hear ya - luckily we are talking about other countries.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[michaelmullins 81]

Most other countries have even more stringent rules than the USA. Good luck.

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Most other countries have even more stringent rules than the USA. Good luck.

Not in Africa, I don't think, but hey, you know more than I do.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[michaelmullins 81]

Billy,

Africa is a lot of countries. Often the less developed a country, the more stringent the rules. For example, Mexican aircraft have far more rules placed on them than USA aircraft.

Mike

[kaerodyne 0]

Chom,

I took a look at the CompAir when it was n the final stages of assembly at Wonderboom about 3yrs ago, it was then destined for SkydivExtreme, they were working with CAA (Civial Aviation Authority) to allow the aircraft to be used as a jump plane, Not sure where that went.

Having sat in the aircraft and looked at the general construction, I think a day to day skydiving operation would be hard on the design and materials .... the one thing that bugged me was that the floor was below the door frame ... so one would either have to build a false floor into the AC or try step you and your pax or team over the step, a minor hassle, but one non the less.

just my rambling .....

[pierre3636 0]

sounds like CAA is getting closer to finality.

anyways will keep you posted.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

You cannot make an intentional parachute jump from an experimental aircraft in the USA. There are no exceptions, it is forbidden by the FAR's.

Other than that, the CompAir 7, 8, or 10 would be great jumplanes.

Mike Mullins

Agreed.


If it ever becomes a certified A/C it would be a great jumpship in the States.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Billy,

Africa is a lot of countries. Often the less developed a country, the more stringent the rules. For example, Mexican aircraft have far more rules placed on them than USA aircraft.

Mike

That surprises me. I would have thought it was the other way around. Any idea why? Just goes to show what I know.... Zilch...

I probably assumed as such because a good number of commercial aircraft have crashed in Africa the last 10 or so years, but like you said, it has many countries, some more lax than others.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[pierre3636 0]

well makes sense right ...the less understanding decision makers have on a given subject the less likely they are to change rules/regulation.

south africa is a developed market as far as aviation goes for the most (or very close to anyways) - as for rest of africa - yeah well i wouldnt hold my breath for anything.

i know its a very long/intensive/labour intensive ect process to get the CAA clearance. i simply dont know enough - ill see what i can find out and provide some feedback.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[likestojump 3]

Quote

You cannot make an intentional parachute jump from an experimental aircraft in the USA. There are no exceptions, it is forbidden by the FAR's.

Other than that, the CompAir 7, 8, or 10 would be great jumplanes.

Mike Mullins

Mike, sorry, you are incorrect.
reference : http://www.an2flyers.org/an2faq.html

QUOTE :
The AN-2 is a popular jump plane in several other countries. The Russians used it as a paratroop transport. The FAA has, to date, been pretty consistant about prohibiting parachuting from the An-2. One An-2 known to Dragon Aviation is certified for sky-diving at air shows ONLY as part of a show routine. Since the jumpers were intended to be part of the An-2's show, this was okay. However, flying paying jumpers; from a commercial sky-dive facility would not be okay. Hollywood has used an An-2 in a recent Chuck Norris movie in which stunt men were karate'd and fell to their death (parachuted) out the door. This has been done through special; certificate waivers issued for one time use for films and stunts.

[jimmytavino 16]

i don't think the Antonov AN-2 is considered an "experimental aircraft".....

i sometimes see news reports about E A
where sadly, something not good has happened...as can be the case with anything built in the owners garage or basement...

the learning curve can be huge...structural issues, engine problems, etc...can all rear their ugly head....


i'll defer to the judgement of others, in this matter...
wouldn't wanna jump out of it unless it's legal and proven as a jumpship...

jt

[pilotdave 0]

The AN-2 is not FAA certified, so it can only be registered as experimental or maybe limited or restricted in certain cases. It's not considered "experimental amateur-built" like the compair, but it's probably usually registered as "experimental exhibition" like warbirds would usually be.

Dave

[michaelmullins 81]

Quote

Quote

You cannot make an intentional parachute jump from an experimental aircraft in the USA. There are no exceptions, it is forbidden by the FAR's.

Other than that, the CompAir 7, 8, or 10 would be great jumplanes.

Mike Mullins

Mike, sorry, you are incorrect.
reference : http://www.an2flyers.org/an2faq.html

QUOTE :
The AN-2 is a popular jump plane in several other countries. The Russians used it as a paratroop transport. The FAA has, to date, been pretty consistant about prohibiting parachuting from the An-2. One An-2 known to Dragon Aviation is certified for sky-diving at air shows ONLY as part of a show routine. Since the jumpers were intended to be part of the An-2's show, this was okay. However, flying paying jumpers; from a commercial sky-dive facility would not be okay. Hollywood has used an An-2 in a recent Chuck Norris movie in which stunt men were karate'd and fell to their death (parachuted) out the door. This has been done through special; certificate waivers issued for one time use for films and stunts.

Sorry, I am not incorrect. The FAR's, just as I stated, do not allow skydiving operations from experimental aircraft, no exceptions. If the FAA wishes to issue a waiver to a certain operator, they are free to do so as the FAA can waiver anything it wishes. This does not change the FARs.

Mike

[ZeG 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

You cannot make an intentional parachute jump from an experimental aircraft in the USA. There are no exceptions, it is forbidden by the FAR's.

Other than that, the CompAir 7, 8, or 10 would be great jumplanes.

Mike Mullins

Mike, sorry, you are incorrect.
reference : http://www.an2flyers.org/an2faq.html

QUOTE :
The AN-2 is a popular jump plane in several other countries. The Russians used it as a paratroop transport. The FAA has, to date, been pretty consistant about prohibiting parachuting from the An-2. One An-2 known to Dragon Aviation is certified for sky-diving at air shows ONLY as part of a show routine. Since the jumpers were intended to be part of the An-2's show, this was okay. However, flying paying jumpers; from a commercial sky-dive facility would not be okay. Hollywood has used an An-2 in a recent Chuck Norris movie in which stunt men were karate'd and fell to their death (parachuted) out the door. This has been done through special; certificate waivers issued for one time use for films and stunts.

Sorry, I am not incorrect. The FAR's, just as I stated, do not allow skydiving operations from experimental aircraft, no exceptions. If the FAA wishes to issue a waiver to a certain operator, they are free to do so as the FAA can waiver anything it wishes. This does not change the FARs.

Mike

By the way: WHY is it forbidden to jump from experimental aircraft? And I also don't understand the reason for rules like for the AN-2. You can fly it here but not jump it??

[likestojump 3]

sorry Mike, you ARE correct, i rushed with my reply. It's that very fine thin line between intentional parachute jumping and stunts :(.

Pilotdave is correct - to the best of my knowledge the AN2 can only be registered as an EXPERIMENTAL, though it obviously is not.

BSBD

[michaelmullins 81]

By the way: WHY is it forbidden to jump from experimental aircraft? And I also don't understand the reason for rules like for the AN-2. You can fly it here but not jump it??

It is forbidden to jump from experimental aircraft because it is forbidden to jump from experimental aircraft. If you are trying to make sense of some FAR's you are in a losing game.

We are lucky in the USA as we are allowed to fly experimental aircraft with few restrictions. As to when and how the jump prohibition came into law, that is a mystery.

Mike

[bfilarsky 0]

Quote

sorry Mike, you ARE correct, i rushed with my reply. It's that very fine thin line between intentional parachute jumping and stunts :(.

Pilotdave is correct - to the best of my knowledge the AN2 can only be registered as an EXPERIMENTAL, though it obviously is not.

BSBD

Quote

By the way: WHY is it forbidden to jump from experimental aircraft? And I also don't understand the reason for rules like for the AN-2. You can fly it here but not jump it??

You can't REALLY fly it here either. I can't remember the exact restrictions on it, but basically you can't fly it more than X (I think 200 nm) distance from the home base, and can't land it anywhere else. There is basically nothing you can do with it, except show it off. Very unfortunate, as it is a very cool airplane. One can be had for around $60k because of all the limitations.

This IS an experimental, but just like saying something flies with a parachute, there are many sub-categories off of that. Amateur built experimental is the most common, that is your typical Van's RV or whatever. As mentioned above, this would be experimental exhibition, or something to that tune, and is HIGHLY restricted in its use. We're from the FAA, and we're here to help!!!

[BlindBrick 0]

Quote

You can't REALLY fly it here either. I can't remember the exact restrictions on it, but basically you can't fly it more than X (I think 200 nm) distance from the home base, and can't land it anywhere else. There is basically nothing you can do with it, except show it off. Very unfortunate, as it is a very cool airplane. One can be had for around $60k because of all the limitations.

You're a little off. Mike can correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding after reading the FAR's, the FAA's websiute about experimentals and a call to the Little Rock FSDO is that the FAA does not issue experimental ratings to aircraft types, but to each individual aircraft, and that it is done on a FSDO by FSDO basis. Thus, there are some AN-2's with the range restriction, and others without it.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."