Off Student Status

[boinky 0]

Who is a person just off student status but not yet possessing an "A" license allowed to jump with? Does it have to be coaches/instructors only, or can it be licensed skydivers?

Nina

Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz)
Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance

[PhreeZone 20]

Per USPA regs... Coaches or instructors only.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Travman 6]

In Australia, you can do solos or jump with instructors.
Not sure about the US, but its probably the same.

[dorbie 0]

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Who is a person just off student status but not yet possessing an "A" license allowed to jump with? Does it have to be coaches/instructors only, or can it be licensed skydivers?

I think technically you're still a student until you get your A license.

Page 7 section 2.1 E 6. b. of the 2005 SIM deals with this. "All students engaging in group freefall jumps must be accompanied by a USPA Coach until the student has obtained a USPA A license."

http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.pdf/SIM2005.pdf

Where I learned anyone jumping with students who'd graduated AFF needed at least a coach rating but I know at least one dropzone that is more strict and limits this to AFFIs.

[kallend 2,027]

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Per USPA regs... Coaches or instructors only.

Waiverable.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[boinky 0]

What does "waiverable" mean?

Nina

Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz)
Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance

[dorbie 0]

The rule may be relaxed with appropriate authority. USPA basic safety regulations come in two catecories, those that can be waived and those that can't. Those that can be waived are further classified by the authority needed to file a waiver.

[boinky 0]

So, I have 2 choices, right? If I want to jump with someone who is just off student status, I'd better:

1. Become a coach.
2. Talk to the dz and try to get the rule waived.

Nina

Are we called "DAWGs" because we stick our noses up people's butts? (RIP Buzz)
Yep, you're a postwhore-billyvance

[AggieDave 6]

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So, I have 2 choices, right? If I want to jump with someone who is just off student status, I'd better:

1. Become a coach.
2. Talk to the dz and try to get the rule waived.

Exactly. However, talking to a few S&TAs and some BOD members, the only people that should be waived are extremely experienced skydivers who happen not to have any sort of rating.

The Coach Course isn't that hard and you'll learn some neat things about teaching and learn a better understanding of the USPA ISP (which is a pretty squared away program), I would agrue that its something that jumpers should do at some point. Especially since literally every up-jumper "instructs" a student at some point, be it with friendly advice or explaining how to do a diving exit towards a formation. And having gone through the coach course, the non-instructor type (even if they have a lot of experience) will learn more about how the ISP is layed out and how it suggests to teach.

Some DZs have higher standards as well. I know that at my DZ to be a coach you have to have gone through SDU and you have to go prove your ability to the head instructor. Its about wanting the absolute best for the student and not excepting substandard flying from our instructional staff. If a new coach comes to the DZ and they're an extremely experienced jumper, then they'll go up with the head instructor and prove their ability. However, since we teach SDU techniques using SDU teaching techniques, it still helps to have atleast gone through SDU.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dorbie 0]

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So, I have 2 choices, right? If I want to jump with someone who is just off student status, I'd better:

1. Become a coach.
2. Talk to the dz and try to get the rule waived.

I think you have a third choice, you could get a coach to accompany the student on the skydive with you.

P.S. different dropzones may have a different opinions on this.

[PhreeZone 20]

I don't thank that would fly if omething would happen on the skydive and the BOD looked into it. At the least they would pull the ratings of the coach for allowing a noninstructor on the jump.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[firstime 0]

my understanding is that once your signed off, you then can jump "solo" but not engage with other jumpers until your A license is obtained. Please correct me if Im wrong

[Nickx22 0]

Yeah, I've done several solos since graduating AFF. I really need to get my A license though so I can meet and jump with people! As soon as my foot heals (just torn ligaments) from my crappy landing due to poor flare timing I'm gonna get back out there and get licensed. But for now I can only jump by myself or an instructor =(

[Hummusx 0]

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I don't thank that would fly if omething would happen on the skydive and the BOD looked into it. At the least they would pull the ratings of the coach for allowing a noninstructor on the jump.

Page 7 section 2.1 E 6. b. of the 2005 SIM deals with this. "All students engaging in group freefall jumps must be accompanied by a USPA Coach until the student has obtained a USPA A license."

I'm almost sure that it does not say EVERYONE on the jump must be a coach, merely that they must be accompanied by a coach. That means that you can bring 2 non-rated people and an AFFI and do a 4-way. Part of the assumption is that your coach/instructor will have the brains to avoid bringing you on jumps you shouldn't be on.

____________________________________
It’s like selling a million grills all at the same time…with extended warranties. -Hank Hill

[larsrulz 0]

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Page 7 section 2.1 E 6. b. of the 2005 SIM deals with this. "All students engaging in group freefall jumps must be accompanied by a USPA Coach until the student has obtained a USPA A license."

I'm almost sure that it does not say EVERYONE on the jump must be a coach, merely that they must be accompanied by a coach. That means that you can bring 2 non-rated people and an AFFI and do a 4-way. Part of the assumption is that your coach/instructor will have the brains to avoid bringing you on jumps you shouldn't be on.

Yes, and if something goes bad, that AFFI/coach/whatever will be held responsible. Putting someone with 20 jumps on a 4-way can be like asking someone with 2 jumps to do a couple back flips on exit. No need to rush, there is plenty that a coach and a student can do during those last few coach jumps. Five more jumps isn't too much to wait. I've done a number of pre-licensed jumps for people who are done with the student progression, but still short of license requirements. Tried a four way with one who was taking a little while to get his accuracy requirements, and I regret it...no one got hurt by any means, it was just more than he could handle...too much, too quick. Just like a new A license holder shouldn't be put on a 12 way.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[dorbie 0]

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I don't thank that would fly if omething would happen on the skydive and the BOD looked into it. At the least they would pull the ratings of the coach for allowing a noninstructor on the jump.

Yea I was going with a literal interpretation of the regs, however I was skeptical that a dropzone would let you do this, hence my "opinions may vary" caveat.

[AggieDave 6]

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however I was skeptical that a dropzone would let you do this, hence my "opinions may vary" caveat.

It depends on the people going on the jump and the student and the DZ.

I know that we've taken really squared away students up on 4 ways and such with other very experienced non-instructor students before.

Special situations, though.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Some DZs have higher standards as well. I know that at my DZ to be a coach you have to have gone through SDU and you have to go prove your ability to the head instructor. Its about wanting the absolute best for the student and not excepting substandard flying from our instructional staff. If a new coach comes to the DZ and they're an extremely experienced jumper, then they'll go up with the head instructor and prove their ability. However, since we teach SDU techniques using SDU teaching techniques, it still helps to have atleast gone through SDU.

If SDU is the standard why bother with the USPA rating at all? Just get your SDU rating and be done with it.

[AggieDave 6]

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If SDU is the standard why bother with the USPA rating at all? Just get your SDU rating and be done with it.

I guess I wasn't fully clear on what we do, sorry about that.

We don't teach full on SDU, we teach basically the same thing but watered down. Think of it as a level between USPA coach requirements and SDU.

So we're not fully teaching SDU, but SDU flying techniques with SDU type teaching, but not full on SDU.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AFFI 0]

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I don't thank that would fly if omething would happen on the skydive and the BOD looked into it. At the least they would pull the ratings of the coach for allowing a noninstructor on the jump.

This is incorrect - the correct quote from the USPA SIM is stated above - the bigguy with the beard has it right...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…