billvon 3,070 #226 November 24, 2008 >Yes, of cause - do not use this when you have 100 - or 200 tandem jumps. The people with thousands of tandem jumps do not need to do "atmonauti" to keep their students stable. It is generally better to acquire the skills you need to do tandem safely than invent bizarre justifications for freeflying while jumping with a student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #227 November 24, 2008 Quote In my opinion, a TM who has stability issues while trying to fall straight down does not have skill enough to be in the air doing tandems with first time jumpers. ESPECIALLY after the drogue is set. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #228 November 24, 2008 Quote But I see another problem, what about the student's video? I hope that sample at autmonauti.com is not representative of the quality of freefall footage that a tandem student pays for. It is poor quality video from the student's perspective. It does nothing to further a prospective first-time jumper's interest in making a skydive. Oh god Look at this video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nrKDAdXc4bU&feature=related It's great footage of showing flight, the student looks absolutely awesome there. It's HELL OF A LOT more interesting to watch the student this way than watch his zoomed in face for 30 seconds and not see anything else."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niteko 0 #229 November 24, 2008 Just wait 3-4 years. And many of TM will use different technique then now or 5 year ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #230 November 24, 2008 I'll take that bet. There's a reason we still teach belly flying FIRST. Tracking with a drogue is a waste anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niteko 0 #231 November 24, 2008 Yes, of cause, they do not need. TM with 1000ts, do not need nothing. Juts pack, jump, land, pack, jump, land, pack, jump, land. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flipper 0 #232 November 24, 2008 QuoteJust wait 3-4 years. And many of TM will use different technique then now or 5 year ago. I suspect this wont be the case Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpull 0 #233 November 24, 2008 evry time you add to this thread, you proudly display your ignorance pertaining to every aspect of skydiving. Quit while you are behind dude! Now, I will wait for your reply trying to explain how I have no idea what I am talking about. Tandems, even if they go flawlessly, are never boring. Booth told me in my evaluators course that a tandem is the single most dangerous skydive you can make. The man knows what he is talking about. I sincerely question whether you have the intelligence,maturity, or common sense to participate in this sport. From what I have read, I believe you do not. ralph Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #234 November 24, 2008 Me?"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpull 0 #235 November 24, 2008 if you are the person that started this thread, and clings steadfastly to the idea that this is "cool" then yes, you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #236 November 24, 2008 Quote You just make exit normal - crossed hands on chest That right there is a stunt that I was taught is now forbidden by UPT (even though it's in the manuals) when I took the sigma tandem course. Arms crossed promotes a de-arched body position, which makes the tandem more prone to side spin. Not really a modern tandem fly exit position, is it? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #237 November 24, 2008 Quoteif you are the person that started this thread, and clings steadfastly to the idea that this is "cool" then yes, you Yes it's cool when it's done by professionals (including the passenger). Same with jumping with stuff like cars, bikes, beds, small canoes etc..."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niteko 0 #238 November 24, 2008 Yes, it will be. Just if you know - 10 years ago Tandems was 500 sq\ft, 5 - years ago 400, now - 330, in next few years - 280... Etc So, as you may see - there some kind of progress in Tandem skydive. It is NOT ALL about passanger! Cause tinny canopies more dangerous for them, is in it? ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #239 November 24, 2008 >TM with 1000ts, do not need nothing. Juts pack, jump, land, pack, jump, >land, pack, jump, land. In other words - do their jobs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #240 November 24, 2008 Quote Quote You just make exit normal - crossed hands on chest That right there is a stunt that I was taught is now forbidden by UPT (even though it's in the manuals) when I took the sigma tandem course. Arms crossed promotes a de-arched body position, which makes the tandem more prone to side spin. Not really a modern tandem fly exit position, is it? Dave Really? do you have a reference for this, as it is news to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowpull 0 #241 November 24, 2008 The arms crossed on exit is not a "stunt" Nor is it forbidden. Having the hands on the harness(left hand left side, right hand right side) helps promote a better upper body position, and lessens the chance of the student having a fetal position in freefall. We teach the newer hand position, but there are still lots of instructors that still have the passenger cross their arms, and it works well enough for them. Just because we update procedures does not mean that the older proceures are forbidden. Not sure where you got that. Ralph USPA TAndem I/E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #242 November 24, 2008 Quote Quote if you are the person that started this thread, and clings steadfastly to the idea that this is "cool" then yes, you Yes it's cool when it's done by professionals (including the passenger). Same with jumping with stuff like cars, bikes, beds, small canoes etc... ... Key word..... COOL>>>>>... you know,,,,, like in a morgue...how is it ?????.... that something which quite Likely, is the most Exciting thing most people ever DO!! ?? in their mundane lives???? needs to be "spiced Up" and "tinkered with".... to make it MORE exciting/dangerous......??? please leave tandem jumping alone,,, and seek out some OTHER means of getting your heartbeat racing.....I DID see the videos of people hanging from a Tandem student harness,,, while another Thrillseeker, is breakdancing with the drogue bridle... and at the same time,,, kicking his feet alllll over the backpack where there just happens to be,,, TWO closing loops,, one securing a main, the other a SPRING LOADED reserve pilot chute...., Not to mention,,, NO headgear protection for the Guy who is expected to eventually DEPLOY the main....>>>>> but yesss... if YOU think it's safe... then it MUST be... hahaha.. what the hell is becoming of my beloved sport????.... never enough now, never enough now,, Is this WHOLE issue, a culture thing???? we do things one way,,, others elsewhere on this planet, wanna do it ANOTHER way???? sorry that i "don't get it "....jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #243 November 24, 2008 I've seen sufficient video reason for not letting them cross their arms anymore. Scary how close that silver handle is to them....at least on a Strong rig anyway. I've changed to the new and improved hand position! See? I'm all open minded and everything. I must be flying advanced style tandem!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #244 November 24, 2008 Quote ... Key word..... COOL>>>>>... you know,,,,, like in a morgue...how is it ?????.... that something which quite Likely, is the most Exciting thing most people ever DO!! ?? in their mundane lives???? needs to be "spiced Up" and "tinkered with".... to make it MORE exciting/dangerous......??? please leave tandem jumping alone,,, and seek out some OTHER means of getting your heartbeat racing.....I DID see the videos of people hanging from a Tandem student harness,,, while another Thrillseeker, is breakdancing with the drogue bridle... and at the same time,,, kicking his feet alllll over the backpack where there just happens to be,,, TWO closing loops,, one securing a main, the other a SPRING LOADED reserve pilot chute...., Not to mention,,, NO headgear protection for the Guy who is expected to eventually DEPLOY the main....>>>>> but yesss... if YOU think it's safe... then it MUST be... hahaha.. what the hell is becoming of my beloved sport????.... never enough now, never enough now,, Is this WHOLE issue, a culture thing???? we do things one way,,, others elsewhere on this planet, wanna do it ANOTHER way???? sorry that i "don't get it "....jmy Ok, I so said this before and I will say it again. Flying to the moon was exiting and the crew almost died on the way back, but look at people now, they are planning on flying to Mars in like 50-60 years... Car racing. It's exiting as it is and people die and yet they still build faster and faster cars. Who the hell told you I was going to do this stunt with tandems? Hell, I'm far enough from doing SF and HD... Don't you get it? People are getting bored, they are looking for new things to do, this is why they do stunts like this or jump with stuff like cars... Some of you may not get bored doing the same thing over, but others do! They want more thrill, that's how everything evolves. That's how skydiving went from round non controllable to square high performance canopies, from simply belly falling to FreeFly, Freestyle, Skysurfing, Wingsuits and BASE jumping... People are curious beings and they risk all the time. Yeah, some die risking, some invent new and exiting things/ideas, which later become very popular and widespread / used. People are not used to / don't want to do new things with tandems now, but it's most likely that in 4-6 years they will be doing even crazier stuff with tandems, because the technology will be better and safer and people will learn new ways of jumping with tandem. When Freefly appeared people said it was stupid and dangerous, but look at FF now. I bet in time, same thing will happen to Modern Tandem Flying. Things don't stay in one place, they move on, change, evolve... Same goes for skydiving, it won't be the same forever, it WILL CHANGE... I don't understand why you don't understand this?"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #245 November 24, 2008 "I don't understand why you don't understand this? " If you'll notice, those with any amount of experience are wondering the same of you. You're a young enough up-jumper to not even know what you don't know. Hang in there grasshopper - hopefully you'll see the logic here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #246 November 24, 2008 Nope, no reference (I've tried to find one). Just what was taught by my I/E when I took the course. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bdazel 0 #247 November 24, 2008 Quote Quote But I see another problem, what about the student's video? I hope that sample at autmonauti.com is not representative of the quality of freefall footage that a tandem student pays for. It is poor quality video from the student's perspective. It does nothing to further a prospective first-time jumper's interest in making a skydive. Oh god Look at this video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nrKDAdXc4bU&feature=related It's great footage of showing flight, the student looks absolutely awesome there. It's HELL OF A LOT more interesting to watch the student this way than watch his zoomed in face for 30 seconds and not see anything else. Sangi: By your blatant ignorance and lack of experience you have made yourself irrelevant to this discussion. I only respond to you because I think this point is relevant to the overall discussion. The youtube video is STILL very poor video from a tandem student's perspective. I understand that it may be exciting for you to watch because you can appreciate what you are seeing. You have experience that gives the video context. A first time tandem student will not see the video in the same context. Whether you think it’s boring or not, facetime is what the student wants and pays for. However, I can envision a student who may be excited that so many skydivers wanted to jump with her (as in the youtube video), and that it may outweigh the poor quality of the video. But this is a rare occasion. Most often it is only the student, instructor, and videographer participating in the skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #248 November 24, 2008 > It's HELL OF A LOT more interesting . . . . . . . to you. One thing you have to keep in mind is that jumping with students has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the student. And if jumping with students isn't fun for you, and you feel the need to get video of you freeflying, or of other people docking on you, or you really want to do hook turns, or you really want to go drougeless - then you should jump for yourself, and do what you feel is fun. Just do your students a favor and stop including them in your escapades. A tandem student is ecstatic if they see a video showing themselves exiting an airplane and freefalling. That's where they are coming from. They will be just as happy if the video shows them sitflying, or pulling way too low, or coming too close to the tail. They simply don't know any better. YOU may not want another boring student video - but again, jumping with students is not about you. It's about them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #249 November 24, 2008 I guess you both have good points about the filming However, I do think that tandem flying will evolve just like freefly and other disciplines did... "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rover 11 #250 November 24, 2008 You've made yourself about as popular here as you are in basejumper.com Is it your intention to alienate yourself where ever you go...?2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
