wngarner 0 #1 November 26, 2008 Ok, sortof random but I have no better place to turn... Let's say I'm the rated instructor or coach on a jump with a student, and god-forbid something goes very wrong and the student is injured or killed. What would my personal liability be there? Would it be dependent on the type of dropzone (USPA or otherwise)? Would there be any benefit is establishing my work as a skydiving "coach/instructor" under an LLC to protect my personal property? Thanks :) whit- ever the spazz Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart, give yourself to it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #2 November 26, 2008 This should go in the instructor forum. As you already know there are many risks in every part of skydiving. You can only protect yourself by following all the BSR's. Their will always be some lawyer out there that will try to make you the fault for your student injury.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #3 November 26, 2008 Start with the assumption that every thing you have now and will ever have will belong to someone else at one end and at the other it will cost you lots and lots of money to not owe the plaintiff anything. I'm not cynical! I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #4 November 26, 2008 I would suggest that your liability would be limited working as a coach. Coaches do not have a defined role in keeping their novice alive; that is the role of the instructor. It is hard to imagine a lawsuit involving a student that does not see at least one instructor named. Your defense is a slavish adherence to the BSRs as well as ensuring you work at a DZ where management has their shit together when it comes to documenting things like equipment and aircraft maintenance, making sure the other instructors around you are properly qualified, and having a well worded release. When a student gets injured it is not unusual for an attorney to inquire. If he is met with an organized DZO who pleasantly provides a copy of a well worded and properly filled out waiver it is a strong deterrence. In the event of a fatality nothing colours a coroners report quite like having a complete history of the rig, copies of the qualifications of the staff, maintenance logs for the aircraft, and witness testimony from both the incident and the training session organized and forwarded in a prompt manner. Of course your best defense is to have your student waving goodbye as they drive off uninjured. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wngarner 0 #5 November 26, 2008 Thanks! Funny but I never really thought of liability before, but recently I started looking into an LLC for a different business venture that carries some liability with it and I'm planning to get an AFF rating in the spring. A family member asked me today about skydiving liability for instructors (since I'm looking into LLCs) and it dawned on me that I had no flipping clue! Thanks for the feedback :)- ever the spazz Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart, give yourself to it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #6 November 26, 2008 Based on what you've posted I guess you mean legal liability and not personal liability. We accept risk amd danger as skydivers. We hope that students understand risk and danger as we train them, right? So what's more important to you? Legal and personal liability will always be there. Do you care more about one over the other?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #7 November 26, 2008 So like marriage then? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 22 #8 November 27, 2008 Hi wag, "Ya payz yer money an' ya takes yer chances!!" Just my thoughts on the subject But what the he2xl do I know.SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #9 November 27, 2008 QuoteSo what's more important to you? Legal and personal liability will always be there. Do you care more about one over the other? Fuck yes I do. I have thought about this several times and have actually considered giving up instructing once I get into a having a real salary given the sue happy nature of our society. I'm a stickler for the rules, train my students to the best of my ability, and well, I wouldn't jump with a student I didn't think I had the skills to fly with ....blah blah blah. Basically, I know what my personal liability is and I know how I behave/train/act with a student. Unfortunately I also know that we train many idiots on a regular basis. I don't want my house and kid's college fund going to Scott Lutz's protege'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #10 November 27, 2008 QuoteHi wag, "Ya payz yer money an' ya takes yer chances!!" Just my thoughts on the subject But what the he2xl do I know. English PLEASENever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wngarner 0 #11 November 27, 2008 QuoteBasically, I know what my personal liability is and I know how I behave/train/act with a student. Unfortunately I also know that we train many idiots on a regular basis. I don't want my house and kid's college fund going to Scott Lutz's protege'. This is what I'm getting at. What the hell does USPA 3rd party actually cover anyhow (my shoe falls off on a skydive and kills Farmer Joe's cow or miscalculate the size of a yard and take our someones car?) Unfortunately accidents do happen in this sport, and while the student might get the risks they signed up for and as an instructor you do everything to the best of your knowledge and ability, but does that mean that the family of that student won't try to haul your ass into court. I appreciate the earlier posts about working for a DZ that has their act together, but outside of that, is there anything to be done on a personal level to safeguard yourself and your family's financial security in the event of the worst? Have any other instructors gone the LLC route, and how might that impact how USPA then covers you and whatnot... Hey all you skydiving lawyers out there...I know you're out there....any thoughts? :)- ever the spazz Your work is to discover your world, and then with all your heart, give yourself to it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 22 #12 November 27, 2008 Hi ozz, I'd have to go back to Martha Faller's High School English 2 class to get an "up date" on "the Queen's English" or is that "the Queens' English." Go figure? Only trouble is, "She's dead Jim!" As for my "English," it's like drinkin' whiskey, some people drink it straight, some with a "Twist." As for anything I've said, if you can't figgure it out, go look it up in yur Funk & Waggnals!!! As for the instructor/JM or what ever getting sued by the student, well good luck!! After 40+ years of hanging out at the DZ I've seen a bit. People will sue. If the Sport is to survive, I guess that regardless of how well we prepare ourselves, be professional, have good gear and training and what ever else, we are still vulnerable!...........is that better??SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #13 November 27, 2008 If you did everything as per the BSR & an injury or fatality occured, that really sucks. You now have to ask yourself if "what did I say that resulted in this tragedy" "did I say the right thing" "I am at a loss" I am not an instructor but a person that can feel a loss of this magnitude. What really sucks is that if an instructor does the right thing and a loss happens he or she has to live with that their whole life. That is why our AFF people are second to none. As far as the legal issue, if they followed the rules I don't think it should not be a legal issue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Scatter- 0 #14 November 27, 2008 IANAL, but I do have an LLC. It will not do a thing to protect you in this case. An LLC is useful if, say, you run a dropzone, and one of your employees does something which gets the dropzone sued. The dropzone is liable, but as you were not personally involved (only involved as it is your corporation) you don't lose your house or your personal assets. If you, personally, were involved in this skydive gone awry, then I'd expect both you personally and your LLC would be named. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that's how its been explained to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 November 27, 2008 Quoteis there anything to be done on a personal level to safeguard yourself and your family's financial security in the event of the worst? See here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3406425;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #16 November 27, 2008 QuoteHi wag, "Ya payz yer money an' ya takes yer chances!!" Just my thoughts on the subject But what the he2xl do I know. Tell that to any kid fresh outta lawschool with a grieving parent, spouse, or... There is no way to protect yourself from being sued. For anything, from anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #17 November 27, 2008 The OP crossposted the same subject in the Instructors Forum seeing it as a better fit for this subject. I am locking this one so we don't end up with a split conversation. The other thread can be found here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3406425#3406425Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
