Re: [Bigwallmaster] Fatality at Perris

[Peej 0]

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Sorry for your loss.

Explain.

I think he meant about the fatality and by "your" he meant Perris in general.

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[Zoter 0]

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Where would you like me?” An otter load of people looked at me like I was an alien from outer space and walked away from me

Gonna have to chime in here to support that comment.
Only been to the US to skydive once...Perris
Absolutely awesome place, very friendly people cant say anything bad about it ...APART from the exit orders.
I did a fair amount of jumps and there was a huge variety of people doing different disciplines on board ( was around the Nationals time)....exit order was never broached until people were actually ON the plane...even then your proximity to the door did seem to influence your exit order'.
The first few time I said 'nothing.....its not my house and I'm a 'low jump number'skydiver in comparison to the people around me....but I do know whats safe , whats not and whats in the 'middle'
I got a little frustrated by no one actually 'taking charge'and determing a good exit order.
To be honest the stock answer was "check your spot and give it 6secs from the previous exit".......effective- yes , but does not take other variables into consideration
After a few jumps I simply took it on myself and asked all those around me what they were doing and 'negotiated' an exit order.
That said ....I never saw a problem when it was a 'free for all' exit order....no close calls....no drifting into 'others' airspace...etc

In the UK we generally dont have this kind of free for all...a designated Jumpmaster ( someone with experience of the DZ and the DZ's exit order policy) will determine the exit order before boarding...so people are seated accordingly.

This was the only thing I found 'odd' at Perris......and Im sure its because of the amount of jumps they do there.......I found it 'odd' that more experienced people didnt seem to give it much consideration......I've always been taught that the poetntial dangers of getting it wrong warrant 'consideration'

[MarkM 0]

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In the UK we generally dont have this kind of free for all...a designated Jumpmaster ( someone with experience of the DZ and the DZ's exit order policy) will determine the exit order before boarding...so people are seated accordingly.

I think this is a US-UK difference, not anything to do with Perris. At most DZs I go to you're pretty much expected to know what you're doing, what other people around you are doing and get into the plane in the correct order without anyone having to tell you what to do.

[Anon1234 0]

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If you are there at sunset with a beer for the instructor, I'll give you dollars to doughnuts they'll make time for you. If they still can't help you then it's time to try a different DZ.

[Zoter 0]

I hear you....but that wasn't the case.
Exit order for the most was never even raised until (at best) the aircraft was ascending.
How did I know?....because I was usually the first person at the boarding area and certainly never the last and really....it was not discussed.
Maybe people organised themselves as to how people were 'dressed'...maybe.......but I wear my FF suit for all jumping not just Freefly.

Anyway I am not having a go at Perris........I loved the place and will definately go back.....its just an observation ( and yes I did feed it back before leaving and felt I was listned too....I wouldnt dare bring it up publically if I hadnt, thats chickenshit)

[diablopilot 2]

You shouldn't scare people with pictures like that Lew!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Maybe you are both right, maybe as a newbie I am in the wrong place and need to go to Elsinore. Maybe Perris is for the experienced and the tandems and not for someone who is still on student status.

I am still going to give Perris an opportunity to redeem themselves with me.

Wonderful.

I will say this. I have seen several people at different dropzones who lamented about not getting enough attention. They also didn't assert themselves and played the "victim" roll. Don't let this happen. Skydiving is no place for back seaters.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think this is a US-UK difference, not anything to do with Perris. At most DZs I go to you're pretty much expected to know what you're doing, what other people around you are doing and get into the plane in the correct order without anyone having to tell you what to do.

I have to say this hasn't been my experience in California, even at Perris. I don't know if a particular person is tasked with the job, but as we gather near boarding I've generally been asked what I'm doing, and if I intend to pull high. It might have been done more casually at Perris (weekday, btw, not so frantically paced), but definitely was done.

For me, Skydance and Hollister are the primaries, with 10+ jumps at Monterey and Perris, only a day at Lodi, Byron, and Elsinore. Is this less common in Florida, or other spots in the US?

[Peej 0]

My home DZ's much the same, in fact i'd go as far as saying that it's very student friendly. We have a JM on each load who checks students while the plane is on its way down and the rest of us more experienced guys have no problem with gear checking those who want one. (I do believe this leads to the babying of jumpers and makes them dependant for longer but that's not what we're discussing here.)

I must say though i did almost 140 skydives in just over a month at Perris last year and there wasn't one load where someone didn't ask what we were doing or we asked everyone else.

I think the important thing is to be assertive, if no one has said anything, say it. I had no clue what kind of exit order they had there but i made damn sure i grabbed the first person at borading point and asked.

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[Paige 0]

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Since then I have been anal about checking gear...you may not know it, but if I can see you, I have checked your gear.

If we aren't looking out for eachother who's gonna look out for us? We all have to be vigilant in keeping one another alive. Safety should come before the worry of making someone mad by questioning their skill/exp. level. I bet people are safer for jumpin on your loads. Hopefully, we'll get some jumps in one of these days when I can drag Ari back out there.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[lewmonst 0]

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The first few time I said 'nothing...

Therein lies a problem. If you are in the loading area, and you don't know or can't tell what the other groups are doing and where you should be in the order, you should step up and ask. Don't assume or expect anyone else to sort out your question if you don't ask.

Often times the assumption is that experienced jumpers know the exit (& boarding) order and should figure out where they belong. There are too many different jumpers from all over to assume the "most experienced" person or someone else is going to take charge and tell everyone where to go. As a licensed skydiver, you are responsible for yourself. If you are still on student status doing solo's, pulling high, you should be last out after experienced jumpers, before students and tandems (and wingsuits)... As a licensed skydiver, you should know the exit order before manifesting, if it's not explained when you sign all the waivers and watch the video, ask manifest. If you get over to the boarding area and you can't tell, speak up.

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I got a little frustrated by no one actually 'taking charge'and determing a good exit order.

Good. Why not do that from the start?

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To be honest the stock answer was "check your spot and give it 6secs from the previous exit".......effective- yes , but does not take other variables into consideration
After a few jumps I simply took it on myself and asked all those around me what they were doing and 'negotiated' an exit order.
That said ....I never saw a problem when it was a 'free for all' exit order....no close calls....no drifting into 'others' airspace...etc

Keep in mind, the majority of the skydivers in Perris are not locals and are visiting from other dropzones. So you might want to preface your question by asking if there are any Perris locals on the load, and then ask for help on exit order and seperation.
Oh yeah, and it helps if you speak Russian, French, Italian, Japanese and Canehdian.

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[Peej 0]

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Oh yeah, and it helps if you speak Russian, French, Italian, Japanese and Canehdian.

And don't forget Sarf Efrican

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[VectorBoy 0]

Keep in mind, the majority of the skydivers in Perris are not locals and are visiting from other dropzones.

[Bigwallmaster 0]

Way-O JP.

I like that. . . ."skydiving is no place for backseaters!"

Cheers,

. . .the other J.P.