cpoxon 0 #1 June 27, 2006 From Radio Times QuoteReal Crime: Sky Diver - Murder or Suicide? 9:00pm - 10:00pm ITV1 London VIDEO Plus+: 1203 Subtitles, widescreen This film examines the death of skydiver Stephen Hilder. When the 20-year-old cadet fell to his death in 2003, his skydiving partners were arrested but not charged. But after a forensic breakthrough, the authorities ruled it was suicide, a conclusion further confused by an open verdict at the inquest. Three years on, and his parents still have no answer. The programme talks to experts and police to try and unravel the riddle of what really happened to the sky diving enthusiast. Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #2 June 27, 2006 What a bunch of wankers. Bringing this to TV three years on. Such a shame the family and community has to go through all this again. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topper 0 #3 June 27, 2006 I was at hib when they were filming this, quite surprising what they do to "make-up" the scene, bring there own police tape, I wondered what the hell had happened when I arrived. If you see feet walking onto the bus, mine are the dirty trainers !! But too right, damn shame they are putting F&F through this again. Why do we rarely see good stories\documentaries promoting the sport? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #4 June 27, 2006 Hib must have been paid a fortune to agree to do this. Oh well, I hope the dz owners got some say in how it is presented. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #5 June 27, 2006 I agree it's a shame to the people emotionally involved and to people who don't like seeing our sport made a macabre spectacle. But it's just TV, so like the myriad shows in poor taste before it, ignore it and it will go away in time. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #6 June 28, 2006 It will be garbage TV...the DZ were mad to let them onto the airfield...... The problem with these sorts of programs is they'll make up anything to fit the story they want to tell......in this case it'll be murder..... The other problem is the great unwashed public take it as fact....... It'll be a PR disaster for British skydiving.....but then British skydiving is run by the BPA........a disaster in its own right anyway........ So nothing new there then......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #7 June 28, 2006 QuoteIt will be garbage TV...the DZ were mad to let them onto the airfield...... The problem with these sorts of programs is they'll make up anything to fit the story they want to tell......in this case it'll be murder..... The other problem is the great unwashed public take it as fact....... It'll be a PR disaster for British skydiving.....but then British skydiving is run by the BPA........a disaster in its own right anyway........ So nothing new there then...... So you have already seen the program??? Dont think so, so keep your comments about it until it has been viewed. Maybe the first conclusion of suicide was wrong??? Maybe it was worth investigating?? Maybe it wil;l be shite, but cant say until it has been aired. And as for PR disaster, get a grip. After any incident our bookings increase........go figure. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #8 June 28, 2006 All that said, it is a shame that a Television production company is making money out of this story. Bet the family's dont see a cent of it. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #9 June 28, 2006 I seem to remember, but am unable to locate, a post or an email that went round some time ago, from the production agency wanting to get hold of the footage from the fancy dress party that was held the night before and I think it claimed that they had the support of the family. Is this a misconception? QuoteBet the family's dont see a cent of it. Are you suggesting that the family would wish to profit from the death of their son? If the family are supporting the production of this programme, I would surmise that they are still looking for answers. Time will tell.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #10 June 28, 2006 Quote I seem to remember, but am unable to locate, a post or an email that went round some time ago, from the production agency wanting to get hold of the footage from the fancy dress party that was held the night before and I think it claimed that they had the support of the family. Is this a misconception? That rings a bell with me too. Maybe it was on the BCPA mailing list?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #11 June 28, 2006 QuoteI seem to remember, but am unable to locate, a post or an email that went round some time ago, from the production agency wanting to get hold of the footage from the fancy dress party that was held the night before and I think it claimed that they had the support of the family. Is this a misconception? QuoteBet the family's dont see a cent of it. Are you suggesting that the family would wish to profit from the death of their son? If the family are supporting the production of this programme, I would surmise that they are still looking for answers. Time will tell. Well if the family support it that is all fine. Though i would like to hope the production company that is making profit on this gives a fair portion to the family. Not for the family to make money from no. No fucking way would i ever suggest that. Money to help pay for the funeral costs they went through and did they no go through a private enquiry, that would have cost. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #12 June 28, 2006 You obviously don't really have a clue how the media treats skydiving, do you.... They just love words and phrases like plunge, plummetted, death defying, terrifying......get the picture???.... In this case..... The first conclusion the police had was murder.....they jumped to that one big time..... But after a couple of months of fruitless investigation, looking for perpetrators and motives, they were forced to look at other possibilities....and the discovery of fibres from his risers, on a pair of scissors, locked in his car, gave them reason to come up with the suicide scenario.... What makes you think tabloid TV is going to suddenly solve the question??.....Do they have access to the forensic labs, equipment, mountain of information the police collected......No way Jose.... I've had dealings with the media involving fatalities over a 30 year skydiving career, and believe me, the interests of skydivers is the last thing on their minds.... I am well aware that interest in jump courses increases with each fatality....but thats not PR really, is it.....its individuals trying to look brave in front of their mates when the news is full of how dangerous the sport is..... PR disasters like this, mean when you are going around corporate sponsors trying to raise funds for a team, or you are battling the local council for access to airfields, airspace and facilities, you come up against brick walls instead of open doors....... I've done all of these things, and I know damn well how frustrating it is to have years of painstaking work educating the public about skydiving, doing lots of unpaid PR for the sport, to see it undone by some punk reporter trying to make a name for himself at our sports expense..... The media don't give a dead rats arse about our sport.....and every negative headline costs us...big time.... So stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #13 June 28, 2006 Seeing as my reply was deleted. All I can is I really am looking forward to seeing the program. Tim thanks for enlightening me. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #14 June 28, 2006 What did you say wrong? You do seem angry though Bryn. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #15 June 28, 2006 QuoteWhat did you say wrong? You do seem angry though Bryn. Just that investigative journalism had, in the past overturned guilty verdicts, i.e. Birmingham 6. And that the program should be viewed and then judged..... and.... BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #16 June 28, 2006 And that Tim was a self righteous arse...... BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #17 June 28, 2006 Why thank you Bryn....doesn't bother me at all....... I do think mods get a bit overanxious about a bit of winding up....... You are the first skydiver I've ever met who trusts the media to give skydiving a fair go..... Hope you enjoy the programme....I won't see it unfortunately, but I trust you'll come back on the board and tell us what it was like, and whodunnit...... "Investigative journalism"....bit of an oxymoron isn't it.....a bit like "military intelligence".... Blues......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #18 July 3, 2006 Bump. This is tonight. All feelings aside, i am actually looking at seeing a documentry involving skydiving on the television. Remember when at work tomorrow, do not admit to being a skydiver unless you want to spend lunch with all your co-workers firing of many, many questions. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #19 July 3, 2006 QuoteThe strange, eerie death of skydiver Stephen Hilder made headlines in 2003 when police announced he had, in all likelihood, been murdered after the straps on both of his parachutes were deliberately cut, leaving Hilder, an experienced skydiver, to fall 13,000 feet to his death in the Lincolnshire countryside. Real Crime, a reliably thorough factual strand (let down only by the overblown, melodramatic music and title sequence), looks at the case in detail, and examines the extraordinary twist in the investigation that led police eventually to claim that Hilder had sabotaged his own parachutes and committed suicide. The finding was based on DNA testing of a pair of scissors found in his car. But Hilder's family and his girlfriend, who are interviewed here, cannot accept that this cheerful, happy-golucky, devout Catholic would kill himself. And wider doubts remain after the coroner at the inquest recorded an open verdict. Hilder's baffled parents need answers. Sadly, as yet, they have none. The program is called "Real Crime" so im guessing their conclusion will be murder (since when is suicide a crime) Whatever the outcome it should be an interesting program.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #20 July 3, 2006 Suicide is a crime. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #21 July 3, 2006 QuoteSuicide is a crime. I think your wrong there. Not in the UK it's not. There is an offence of aiding and abetting a suicide though. EDIT: Yeah... here you go... QuoteBritish law allows the first of these rights: under the 1961 Suicide Act, it is not a criminal offence to commit suicide. But the law does not allow the second right: under the Suicide Act, it is an offence to "aid, abet, counsel, or procure" an act of suicide; and under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, it is an offence to kill anyone (except in special cases that are not relevant here). On the face it, it seems absurd to make people criminals simply because they have helped someone to achieve what they would legally be entitled to do by themselves. The motive for making this legal restriction was, I believe, to prevent abuses that would occur if it were legal to aid suicide. There are two kinds of abuse that would arise: People could be led to commit suicide by psychological pressure even though the suicide really wanted to live. People could be killed by others who claimed that they were acting on the instructions of the deceased even though the victim wanted to live. These abuses cannot be eliminated entirely, even under the present law. Nevertheless, I would assume that the present law reduces the chances of these abuses although I am not aware of any evidence that confrims that assumption. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #22 July 3, 2006 I was being literal, if you mean suicide is a crime as in it hurts everyone around you then i agree. But i was using it to get across the name of the program.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #23 July 3, 2006 the tv guide caption says 'was it murder, suicide, or something else?' i think im watching it to understand what else it could be more than anything!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #24 July 3, 2006 I guess something else is leaving an option for the "Bridles cut with scissors" malfunction. This programs just gonna drag up a lot of crap and not achieve anything.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #25 July 3, 2006 well even if it is rubbish, it'll still be good to be able to watch skydiving on tv on a seperate note, has anybody ever done any research into why more people become interested in doing tandems and fjc's after a publicised skydiving incident? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
