Are you scared of your reserve?

[CMiller 1]

Is it a fear of reserve malfunction? Think about it this way: If you're under a main that you don't think you can safely land, you'd be no worse off if your reserve malfunctioned. You'd still be under a parachute you can't land safely. In a sense, your situation can only improve.

[poe62 0]

I'm not afraid of my reserve. I'm afraid of not being able to pull my handles. I've practiced, it's hard for me being small and everything. I'm scared at what kind of strength and pressure is needed under a spinning mal.

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[billvon 3,065]

>I'm scared at what kind of strength and pressure is needed under a
>spinning mal.

Make sure you keep your cables clean (clean and lubricate at LEAST once per repack) and have hard housings in your risers; that will go a long way towards preventing hard cutaways. Also change your risers regularly (every 500 jumps or so.) If you really wanted to go overboard you could go to type-8 risers with large 3-rings (lower forces) but that's pretty extreme, especially since you're probably loading the system a lot less than most people are.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

Is it a fear of reserve malfunction? Think about it this way: If you're under a main that you don't think you can safely land, you'd be no worse off if your reserve malfunctioned. You'd still be under a parachute you can't land safely. In a sense, your situation can only improve.

Not necessarily, which is why we think and talk about this issue. Some partial malfunctions have at least a chance of being landed survivably, while others do not. I'm not advocating anything; I'm simply saying that, ultimately, each jumper must take sole responsibility for making the judgment call on how best to save his own life.

[dragon2 2]

You're kidding, right?!?!

Even the smallest wussiest girls/guys can pull handles. You should get yourself an instructor to help you with this. Get in a hanging harness and PRACTICE. If you can't pull your handles you may be doing something wrong, maybe you have to change the angle you pull, and peel that velcro first if you don't already.

Gear-wise get riser inserts for sure if you don't have them already.

If I were afraid I wouldn't/couldn't pull my handles I'd DO something about it! Only other option IMO is to stop jumping.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[buff 0]

Quote

I'm not afraid of my reserve. I'm afraid of not being able to pull my handles. I've practiced, it's hard for me being small and everything. I'm scared at what kind of strength and pressure is needed under a spinning mal.

Poe,

When it's I&R time you should practice for real & pull those handles. Your pilot chute will spring out and you can see how that works as well as get a feel for the "normal friction force" required to pull your gear out. My rigger recommends this and has me do it at his place. I've heard some riggers don't like you to pull the handles but hey, I'm paying for a repack & service whether it's just an I&R or one after a ride.

I guess you could use your rig in a hanging harness setup and have someone spin you around but that seems extreme.

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[airtwardo 7]

That taught me one thing. It doesn't matter if the reserve works or not. It either will or it won't and there's not a damned thing you can do about it. All you can do is keep fighting until your goggles fill with blood!

Lake Elsinore 20 years ago, streamer on the main that I tried to rig with for a bit B4 chopping, reserve comes out with several lines over.

Carnival ride went from downhill real fast to whippin' & spinnin'- - -downhill really fast!

On yer back cussing is a bad time to be hook knifin' lines...got two wrong ones before I got a right one, tossed the knife thinking better to leave what's left alone.

Cross controlling & a PLF made the crunch under the slower spinner survivable...DZO comes up and offers another rig to get right back up to shake it off then he congratulates me.

"Think of it THIS way, what are the odds of that ever happening AGAIN!?"

Still have that reserve, put 5 more on it since...

~Bonus Dayz!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[poe62 0]

Quote

>I'm scared at what kind of strength and pressure is needed under a
>spinning mal.

Make sure you keep your cables clean (clean and lubricate at LEAST once per repack) and have hard housings in your risers; that will go a long way towards preventing hard cutaways. Also change your risers regularly (every 500 jumps or so.) If you really wanted to go overboard you could go to type-8 risers with large 3-rings (lower forces) but that's pretty extreme, especially since you're probably loading the system a lot less than most people are.

Thanks for the info! I'll talk to my rigger about it. He makes me pull my handles while I'm there too. I've been in the harness at my dz as well.

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[chrismgtis 0]

Quote

I was having a conversation with a fellow low number jumper about fear of using your reserve. I was wondering how many people end up hurting or killing themselves because they choose to ride in a malfunctioning main rather then cutaway. Specifically after some sort of low speed malfunction where you canopy has a controllability problem but is still flying relatively stable. Has anyone dealt with this and made the wrong/right choice?

I used my reserve around jump 50 or 60 something. It's nothing like I imagined. I didn't get scared or freak out. I just knew I felt it was time to go and went for it. Then it popped really nicely and I was thinking "wow not so bad at all".

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[airtwardo 7]

It's nothing like I imagined. I didn't get scared or freak out. I just knew I felt it was time to go and went for it. Then it popped really nicely and I was thinking "wow not so bad at all".

Kinda like sex huh!?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[TheSecret 0]

Quote

I'm not advocating anything; I'm simply saying that, ultimately, each jumper must take sole responsibility for making the judgment call on how best to save his own life.

There was a person at the DZ with maybe 30ish jumps. In one of his first few pack jobs he gave himself a nice line over. He felt he was still flying in the general direction he wanted to go and made the decision to not cutaway. He ended up coming in like a lawn dart and really hurt his leg. Many people came up to him to tell him he was nuts for not chopping it and he did the wrong thing. He agreed but I could tell he was not convinced that he should have gone to the reserve…or the “unknown” as he called it.

I know in skydiving, and in life for that matter, you tend to do what you practice. Maybe next time he absolutely should chop and will ride it in again.

Life is good

[chrismgtis 0]

Quote

It's nothing like I imagined. I didn't get scared or freak out. I just knew I felt it was time to go and went for it. Then it popped really nicely and I was thinking "wow not so bad at all".

Kinda like sex huh!?

lmao

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[Loonix 0]

Quote

I was having a conversation with a fellow low number jumper about fear of using your reserve. I was wondering how many people end up hurting or killing themselves because they choose to ride in a malfunctioning main rather then cutaway. Specifically after some sort of low speed malfunction where you canopy has a controllability problem but is still flying relatively stable. Has anyone dealt with this and made the wrong/right choice?

I've thought the same, and wondered how I'd react in that situation. Well, it happened on my previous jump, and I did all according to training. Even tossed my cutaway handle, as I was taught to do, but always thought I'd keep in a lowspeed mal... I had also imagined myself taking a bit more time trying to fix it (and I might, next time), but didn't get much further than "is it there? yes. is it square? no!" ...
My pulse was pretty high at first there when I saw that it wasn't opening like normal. I made one quick attempt at fixing it, but only made it worse, and from then on, I didn't think much, just acted. Unlike billvon, I thought my PDr 143 was going kind of fast...
Anyway, having tried my reserve is great, and I think I'll be feeling a little safer from now on, knowing that it's working, and that I can handle it too.

[gearless_chris 1]

Quote

Quote

I'm not advocating anything; I'm simply saying that, ultimately, each jumper must take sole responsibility for making the judgment call on how best to save his own life.

There was a person at the DZ with maybe 30ish jumps. In one of his first few pack jobs he gave himself a nice line over. He felt he was still flying in the general direction he wanted to go and made the decision to not cutaway. He ended up coming in like a lawn dart and really hurt his leg. Many people came up to him to tell him he was nuts for not chopping it and he did the wrong thing. He agreed but I could tell he was not convinced that he should have gone to the reserve…or the “unknown” as he called it.

I know in skydiving, and in life for that matter, you tend to do what you practice. Maybe next time he absolutely should chop and will ride it in again.

A neptune would've come in handy to check his descent rate to see if it was really landable. Or if he would've had another canopy that he knew flying beside him to gauge his descent rate. I wouldn't try to land a mal without either of those.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[Loonix 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I'm not advocating anything; I'm simply saying that, ultimately, each jumper must take sole responsibility for making the judgment call on how best to save his own life.

There was a person at the DZ with maybe 30ish jumps. In one of his first few pack jobs he gave himself a nice line over. He felt he was still flying in the general direction he wanted to go and made the decision to not cutaway. He ended up coming in like a lawn dart and really hurt his leg. Many people came up to him to tell him he was nuts for not chopping it and he did the wrong thing. He agreed but I could tell he was not convinced that he should have gone to the reserve…or the “unknown” as he called it.

I know in skydiving, and in life for that matter, you tend to do what you practice. Maybe next time he absolutely should chop and will ride it in again.

A neptune would've come in handy to check his descent rate to see if it was really landable. Or if he would've had another canopy that he knew flying beside him to gauge his descent rate. I wouldn't try to land a mal without either of those.

I'd say a lineover is a pretty good indication the canopy isn't landable, in itself.

[chrismgtis 0]

Quote

There was a person at the DZ with maybe 30ish jumps. In one of his first few pack jobs he gave himself a nice line over. He felt he was still flying in the general direction he wanted to go and made the decision to not cutaway. He ended up coming in like a lawn dart and really hurt his leg. Many people came up to him to tell him he was nuts for not chopping it and he did the wrong thing. He agreed but I could tell he was not convinced that he should have gone to the reserve…or the “unknown” as he called it.

I think we all probably have that first thought to ride the malfunction down if it isn't terrible. Though, a line over, that is a terrible terrible malfunction, I don't care whether you are flying pretty well with one or not. Lucky guy there.

I know when I chopped, before I did so I thought well, it's possible that I could land this built in turn that I have here by pulling holding one toggle down further than the other, but do I really want to land without flaring or trying to flare like that? I didn't have to think about that too long.

And now that I know more, I could have possibly fixed that malfunction, but I felt that I had burnt up enough time thinking so I didn't hesitate to chop for that reason. I know I was well above the hard deck, but I honestly didn't even check my altimeter. I knew I was above the hard deck and well above it, but I also knew I didn't want to take another second at that point to look at my altimeter and think about it. I said "It has to happen sooner or later" and cutaway right then.

Why didn't I check my altimeter? I was too busy fixing the built in turn several times hoping it would correct itself then went to ER and I always pull at 4500 or 4000 so I knew I was at least around 3500 ft at the point.

It was one of the least serious malfunctions you can ever have, but I chopped for it and I'm as afraid of it as anyone else.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[PeregrineFalcon 0]

I had a built in turn 3 weeks ago. The AFF training says to chop if it takes a toggle more than half way down to fly her straight. I completely forgot that training while under canopy. Something else went through my mind instead. I thought, "If I cut away, what're the odds of it getting tangled with the reserve?" I felt at that moment that it would have to be a MAJOR malfunction before I chopped. I felt I could land it with at worse a scrape if I performed a good PLF. I didn't have the confidence to adjust my leg straps while under canopy. I still don't. A friend of mine recently did that and loosened them to the point of his chest strap coming up under his chin. It didn't sound fun.

Nothing bad happened, I kept it as straight as I could until the flare and I went to the left a bit, did a PLF (didn't even try to stand it up) and got a tiny boo boo on my hand. No big whoop (though I might have gotten a little blood on the canopy because I didn't notice it until someone pointed it out to me later on).

On the ground, a veteran there pointed out the >50% rule. I felt dumb, of course.

One other thing. Some STUPID thought in my head said, "This is only your 12th jump, it's not statistically time to chop yet." I know. Dumb. But I learned from it.

1st jump had a line twist. No big deal, but when that happens on your FIRST jump it tends to pucker you up.

10th jump had a broken steering line.

It may be time to buy my own rig.

[rgaray 0]

Quote

I was having a conversation with a fellow low number jumper about fear of using your reserve. I was wondering how many people end up hurting or killing themselves because they choose to ride in a malfunctioning main rather then cutaway. Specifically after some sort of low speed malfunction where you canopy has a controllability problem but is still flying relatively stable. Has anyone dealt with this and made the wrong/right choice?

I think it's pretty normal to fear the unknown. I haven't had a reserve ride yet, and although I'm pretty confident the reserve will do its job, it's the process of getting there that scares me, and all the little things between the chop and the reserve opening that could be done wrong.

Again, all of this will most likely go away in my head once I experience it, but I totally know what you're saying. I am a firm believer in NOT riding your main down if it has the slightest malfunction. The odds will NEVER be on your side if you think that way.

With that being said....the best way not to worry about this is to take your packing job seriously, never do it in a rush, and never let anything distract you. This might be an extreme example but one of the guys at my DZ who's got about 700 jumps and one cutaway related to me what had caused his first chop......he said he gave himself stepthrough because he had decided to show his friends the night before how to pack his rig while he had been drinking. My point with this extreme example is that 1 out of 2 stories I hear about people's reserve rides have come out of plain stupidity.

To me, my skydive starts while setting my brakes, and ends when I jump out that door. For everything else, there's the powers beyond me.

---
"It takes courage to walk through the rain on a cold and foggy night, but it is those nights that dawn the most beautiful mornings."

[chrismgtis 0]

I think I'm honestly more afraid of losing my canopy and bag, than I am of popping the reserve and riding it down in good shape or bad.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I was having a conversation with a fellow low number jumper about fear of using your reserve. I was wondering how many people end up hurting or killing themselves because they choose to ride in a malfunctioning main rather then cutaway. Specifically after some sort of low speed malfunction where you canopy has a controllability problem but is still flying relatively stable. Has anyone dealt with this and made the wrong/right choice?

No, I like my PD reserve and reserve pack jobs a lot.

With enough altitude I cutaway, get right side up, relax, take a short delay, and then deploy a bit head-high.

If I don't know where I am I just pull both handles in sequence. Seems to work fine that way too.