family and skydiving

[ghost47 18]

Quote

In almost every activity, even dangerous or semi-hazardous ones, such as driving or motorcycle or horse riding, or skiing, etc., some POSSIBILITY of death exists IF something happens. However, on each and every parachute jump, the CERTAINTY of death exists UNLESS something happens.

This seems like semantics to me. It's all in how you define things.

You could say that the ordinary course of a car ride is that I get in a car, accelerate and brake when appropriate, then stop at my destination. Assuming no catastrophic machine failure and no serious user error, I'll survive the ride. However, if there WAS catastrophic machine failure or user error at certain times (say I'm going 80 down the highway and then notice traffic stopped ahead, and my brakes and airbags fail and my steering locks), I'm almost certainly going to die.

In the same way, the ordinary course of a skydive is that I get on a plane, step out of it, pull my 'chute, and land. Assuming no catastrophic equipment failure or serious user error, I'll survive the jump. However, if there WAS catastrophic equipment failure or serious user error at certain times (say anytime that I'm not 5 feet above ground), I'm almost certainly going to die.

Now, it's certainly valid to say that the likelihood of catastrophic failure at importune times is higher in skydiving than in driving. It's probably also valid to say that most user error in driving is less likely to be fatal than user error in skydiving. But I don't think it's valid to say that deaths from driving and deaths from skydiving are categorically different because one involves certain death unless you do something and one involves likely death if you don't.

[Andy9o8 2]

This is silly. You either get it or you don't; and I find that the jumpers who persist in twisting the logic 'round and 'round are usually the newest ones to the sport. I'm done.

[justintime1983 0]

Quote

This is silly. You either get it or you don't; and I find that the jumpers who persist in twisting the logic 'round and 'round are usually the newest ones to the sport. I'm done.

I only twist logic to people trying to get them to jump. Makes absolutely no sense to me, I've just stopped trying to figure it out.

I keep telling my friends skydiving will fix all your problems, Im a fibber you just let go a minute at a time. Choose what to do with it.

[pirana 0]

I think we are on the same page. The only part I think is a big question mark is the number of active skydivers. Wish there was a way to know that; but I'd bet it is well under half of USPA's membership.

Something else that I forgot was that the fatalities records seem to include worldwide. For simplicities sake, and to make it a meaningful comparison to stats on US drivers and traffic fatalities, I was wanting to compare US only. Either way (US or worldwide) it would seem we need to have a good handle on the number of actice skydivers in order to get to a meaningful comparison.

mr music - - this is very good banter.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

Quote

In almost every activity, even dangerous or semi-hazardous ones, such as driving or motorcycle or horse riding, or skiing, etc., some POSSIBILITY of death exists IF something happens. However, on each and every parachute jump, the CERTAINTY of death exists UNLESS something happens.

I think this is one of those drama-laden statements that is best saved for whuffos. There are plenty of activities in which, once you get to a certain point in the activity, stopping all inputs and actions will result in death.

Compare these 2:

1 - Once you jump from a plane, if you do nothing else, if you do not do SOMETHING, you will almost certainly die.

2 - Once you accelerate your car to 160MPH, if you do nothing else, if you do not do SOMETHING, you will almost cetainly die.

One of the jumpers I know is a firefighter. Same kind of dramatic logic applies. Once you enter a burning building, if you do nothing else, if you do not do SOMETHING, you will almost certainly die.

And so on and so forth.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[mr_music11 0]

Absolutly! I'm all for good conversation! Truly, sincerely.. I do appreciate ALL views.. might not agree.. but thats ok! still appreciate the different perspectives!

mr music - - this is very good banter.

[ghost47 18]

Quote

This is silly. You either get it or you don't; and I find that the jumpers who persist in twisting the logic 'round and 'round are usually the newest ones to the sport. I'm done.

Well, on all technical matters, and matters of skydiving culture, I'm quite willing to defer to more experienced skydivers. But I don't think you can really pull the "you're a newbie" card when it comes to matters of logic and comparison.

The way I see it is that the difference between driving a car and jumping out of an airplane is that one is easier and allows for quite a lot more room for error, both for equipment and human failure. But it's a matter of degree -- lots of stuff has to go wrong to die in a car, very little has to go wrong to die in a skydive. I don't see how that's an invalid way of looking at things.

[JohnnyD 0]

Quote

Compare these 2:

1 - Once you jump from a plane, if you do nothing else, if you do not do SOMETHING, you will almost certainly die.

2 - Once you accelerate your car to 160MPH, if you do nothing else, if you do not do SOMETHING, you will almost cetainly die.

1- Under what circumstances would you expect to jump out of a plane in flight, do nothing and expect to live?

2 - If you are traveling at 160 mph and take your foot off the accelerator, your car will gradually slow to a stop. Not very dramatic.

[mitsuman 0]

Quote

1- Under what circumstances would you expect to jump out of a plane in flight, do nothing and expect to live?

2 - If you are traveling at 160 mph and take your foot off the accelerator, your car will gradually slow to a stop. Not very dramatic.

1. AAD
2. Your expecting that your car goes completely straight and the road doesn't curve at all. If you truly do "nothing", then you will not be steering now will ya, which probable means yes you will die.

This thread has officially gone completely off topic.

Hi, my names Jon, and I love to skydive.

[JohnnyD 0]

Quote

Quote

1- Under what circumstances would you expect to jump out of a plane in flight, do nothing and expect to live?

2 - If you are traveling at 160 mph and take your foot off the accelerator, your car will gradually slow to a stop. Not very dramatic.

1. AAD
2. Your expecting that your car goes completely straight and the road doesn't curve at all. If you truly do "nothing", then you will not be steering now will ya, which probable means yes you will die.

This thread has officially gone completely off topic.

1. If you ever make the decision to rely on your AAD, immediately sell all your gear and buy a bowling ball because skydiving is not for you.

2. How many times have you been in a vehicle when there was a certainty of death? My guess is zero. How many times have you been skydiving when there was a certainty of death? Every time.

Its not even comparable and if you can't understand that, I would never want to be in the air with you.

[mitsuman 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

1- Under what circumstances would you expect to jump out of a plane in flight, do nothing and expect to live?

2 - If you are traveling at 160 mph and take your foot off the accelerator, your car will gradually slow to a stop. Not very dramatic.

1. AAD
2. Your expecting that your car goes completely straight and the road doesn't curve at all. If you truly do "nothing", then you will not be steering now will ya, which probable means yes you will die.

This thread has officially gone completely off topic.

1. If you ever make the decision to rely on your AAD, immediately sell all your gear and buy a bowling ball because skydiving is not for you.

2. How many times have you been in a vehicle when there was a certainty of death? My guess is zero. How many times have you been skydiving when there was a certainty of death? Every time.

Its not even comparable and if you can't understand that, I would never want to be in the air with you.

1. you asked a question and i answered it. Would i ever solely rely on my AAD, OF COURSE not. Should anyone? NO. BUT i did answer your question.

2. there is only certainty of death in skydiving if you choose to not pull or have dual malfunctions. and at the same time there is only certainty of death in a car if you are going 160mph and hit a wall or loose control. both have happened. and will happen again.

So the lesson here kids is, Don't drive your cars at 160mph into a wall. and don't have dual malfunctions!

Hi, my names Jon, and I love to skydive.

[pirana 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

1- Under what circumstances would you expect to jump out of a plane in flight, do nothing and expect to live?

2 - If you are traveling at 160 mph and take your foot off the accelerator, your car will gradually slow to a stop. Not very dramatic.

1. AAD
2. Your expecting that your car goes completely straight and the road doesn't curve at all. If you truly do "nothing", then you will not be steering now will ya, which probable means yes you will die.

This thread has officially gone completely off topic.

1. If you ever make the decision to rely on your AAD, immediately sell all your gear and buy a bowling ball because skydiving is not for you.

2. How many times have you been in a vehicle when there was a certainty of death? My guess is zero. How many times have you been skydiving when there was a certainty of death? Every time.

Its not even comparable and if you can't understand that, I would never want to be in the air with you.

You need to follow the conversation more closely.

Did anyone advocate, anywhere in this thread, that somebody rely on an AAD? Your need to make dramatic statements seems to have caused you to hear something that was not said.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[mitsuman 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

1- Under what circumstances would you expect to jump out of a plane in flight, do nothing and expect to live?

2 - If you are traveling at 160 mph and take your foot off the accelerator, your car will gradually slow to a stop. Not very dramatic.

1. AAD
2. Your expecting that your car goes completely straight and the road doesn't curve at all. If you truly do "nothing", then you will not be steering now will

ya, which probable means yes you will die.

This thread has officially gone completely off topic.

1. If you ever make the decision to rely on your AAD, immediately sell all your gear and buy a bowling ball because skydiving is not for you.

2. How many times have you been in a vehicle when there was a certainty of death? My guess is zero. How many times have you been skydiving when there was a certainty of death? Every time.

Its not even comparable and if you can't understand that, I would never want to be in the air with you.

You need to follow the conversation more closely.

Did anyone advocate, anywhere in this thread, that somebody rely on an AAD? Your need to make dramatic statements seems to have caused you to hear something that was not said.

If they did or if they didn't doesn't make a difference. You asked a very specific question, and I answered it. That means I'm being dramatic? Cmon now.

Don't ask a question if you don't wanna hear the answer. Be a little more specific next time then?....

This argument is a dead end. Who cares.

Blue skies.

Someone needs to come up with something better than driving vs skydiving. They are completely different. I think we should just let statistics speak for themselves without having to try and bring another statistic into the mix to prove how "safe" skydiving is.

Hi, my names Jon, and I love to skydive.

[korbin 0]

The apples to oranges argument that makes driving seem statistically worse than skydiving is just that: statistical.

There is indeed the risk of death EVERY TIME you get into a vehicle, and EVERY TIME you jump. Skydiving is unique in that a total mal WILL kill you.


There really is no reason that we need to justify the decision to do either. It is up to the person jumping. When trying to tell someone that skydiving is "safe," just say that there is "definite risk but very improbable" and leave it at that.. If you're diving you have already made the decision that the dive is worth the small chance of a total mal.