Combination of factors = scary situation!

[Skycaroline 0]

After a 10-way skydive earlier today, I deployed my main at around 3,000ft. I realised almost as soon as I deployed that something wasn't right. My first thought was that a brake had fired. I had experienced this before and it felt similar. The canopy started to spiral quite fast, but on looking up I saw that the lines were also very twisted. Because I couldn't immediately identify any one thing that was correctable my immediate reaction was to get off it.

I tried to locate my handles, but due to the spiralling, couldn't even get to the cutaway pad with my right hand. I then tried using both hands to get to the cutaway pad. A combination of very cold hands (it was a freezing cold day in the UK), very tiny hands (that only just span the length of the cutaway pad) and the speed of the spiralling, meant that I just could not get enough of a grip on the pad to even peel it. I kept trying until I became concerned about the complete lack of progress I was making versus the height I guessed I was now at.

I was exhausted and disorientated by this point and did briefly consider trying my luck with the reserve pad without cutting away first. I quickly decided though that this should be an absolute last resort in a situation where I still had an uncontrollable main attached. I looked up again to see if there was anything else I could possibly do - on doing so I noticed that although the canopy was still spiralling, the line twists had cleared themselves. This made it very easy to see that a fired left hand toggle was the cause of the problem.

I tried to get my hands into my Trulock toggles (one of which was of course no longer stowed). But my hands were so cold and my fingers so numb, that I couldn't even get my fingers into the loops (the toggles have not been modified e.g. totally flat loops). I then turned all my attention to the unstowed left hand toggle, grabbed the whole thing with both hands and pulled it towards me - finally causing the canopy to fly straight. (My pro-track data indicates I was at around 1,300 feet when I regained this control).

I steered the canopy as best I could to get me heading to a safe landing area, then set about trying to secure my left hand into the toggle. I still wasn't able to do this and eventually I had no choice but to use my right hand to help wrap the steering line itself around my left hand (I couldn't afford to drop that toggle!!). Once secure on the left hand side, I fumbled with the right toggle and eventually managed to get hold of it properly.

By the time I had full control for landing I was at approx 400ft. I landed without further drama, in a nice big field.

--

I am posting this because a number of circumstances combined here to make this a skydive that I feel very lucky to have walked away from.

1. Very cold/icy conditions that affected both my ability to operate my equipment effectively (cold hands) and, I believe, my state of mind/reactions.
2. Very small hands, that when combined with reduced mobility (due to the cold and thicker than normal gloves) - made my cutaway handle virtually useless/inoperable for me.
3. Leg straps that had come slightly loose during the skydive - which may have placed my handles slightly higher than they might usually be.
4. A distraction during packing that I believe made me fail to stow the left hand trulock toggle properly. (I usually jump a Voodoo, but on this occasion I was jumping my Vector 3 - a second rig with a different toggle system, and a rig that I jump/pack far less often).
5. A spiralling canopy caused by a combination of twists and a fired brake - which made it even harder to operate my equipment.

It's worth noting that on previous jumps I have successfully dealt with each of the things above. When combined though, this became an exhausting and stressful situation which at more than one point had me believing that there was little chance of a good outcome.

I vowed after landing that I would not jump this rig again until I had sorted a few things.... (I am interested in other people's view on these)!

1st). I am having the Vector cutaway and reserve pads replaced - either for smaller pads or soft loops. N.B. My Voodoo also has two pads, but they are half the size making them perfect for my tiny hands and therefore very easy for me to get a very firm grip.
2nd). I am considering ways of standardising the toggle systems across my two rigs (but the simple solution here is to take more care packing!).
3rd). Avoid jumping again in conditions that are likely to make my hands so cold and numb that I can't operate my equipment properly. My tiny hands mean that only regular gloves afford me much mobility... e.g. slightly thicker gloves (or two pairs worn together) make it virtually impossible to close my hands with any real strength.
4th). Ensure that the simple and common modification is carried out on my toggles to make the hand loops easier and quicker to access.

In terms of the way I dealt with what happened real-time: I was pretty angry with myself for not following my initial instinct about the fired brake and for not attempting to correct that straight away. That may not've worked though with twists also in the lines, and it's also hard to imagine doing much different if I had the situation again.... so I am trying not to beat myself up too much.

I've learnt a lot today about how individual circumstances combined with less than ideal conditions can impact the ability to deal with a situation that otherwise would have been a standard operation of emergency drills.

I've had a niggling doubt about the suitability (for me) of the cutaway and reserve handles on my Vector for some time - but always dismissed this because "it's a pretty standard set up". In hindsight I should've thought much more about what was really right for me.

I'm hoping others will also learn from this story...

Caroline

[kallend 2,027]

Hi Caroline

You might take a look at the type of gloves you are using. Here in the midwestern USA (Illinois) we jump in very cold weather (colder than I ever recall in the UK). There are gloves available here that do a pretty good job keeping the hands warm without being too bulky.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Please spend some money on proper gloves.

They do exist and are there to be found if you are willing to a) spend time looking for them and b) spend real money on them.

If you feel you are unable to find anything on the market, why not have someone make you custom gloves? I see proper gloves as being as much an indispensable safety device as your canopy. If you can't operate your canopy because you have inappropriate hand wear, what is the point in having one?

Everything you describe can be linked back to your cold hands. Don’t put yourself in that position.

[vt1977 0]

As someone else with very small hands (although Caroline's hands are quite a bit smaller than mine) I know exactly what she means about how the cold can make it almost impossible to feel/grip and I totally agree with what she says about thick gloves or two pairs of gloves reducing mobility for small hands. I also wonder if maybe small hands feel the cold more than bigger hands?

I don't know what the answer is here, but I'm glad that this situation turned out ok.

Vicki

[IvanPeters 0]

Hi Caroline,

Glad you came through that one OK. I avoid jumping in really cold weather for fear of exactly that happening. Yesterday wasn't supposed to be that cold but it turned out to be one of the coldest jumps I remember ever doing. My fingers were still working, but only just - and that with winter gloves and liners on.

Some people wear surgical gloves under their normal gloves to stop the wind. I never though it made much difference but you might want to give that a go.

I was talking about this subject to a guy at work the other day. He suggested getting a chemical heating pack from a camping shop and strapping it to the wrist (where the blood supply to the hand is closest to the skin). Interesting idea, not sure if it'll really counter the effect of 120mph windchill.

I'm still on the lookout for a thinner version of these.

Ivan

[wmw999 2,452]

I couldn't agree more about the small hands and mobility thing. I only wear mittens skiing because thick enough gloves don't even give me enough dexterity to ski, never mind skydive.

The first thing to consider really is to simply not skydive when it's too cold, until you've found a solution that works for you. You could consider getting one of the little warming packets that people use skiing, and simply put it in your pocket before jumping out -- at least that way you leave the plane with warm hands.

Good job analyzing what went on with a critical eye, and for asking for inputs.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[cbain 0]

Was the harness custom made for you or off the rack/second hand?

Do you think the harness sizing contributed at all to being able pull the cutaway?

I had an unstowed brake that I failed to recognize (mistake #1) and went to cutaway and couldn't due to the handles moving so far. (You can read the about it here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=993216;search_string=reserve;#993216) The container had been bought off the rack and had a 17 inch main lift web (mistake #2, or the other way around). I'm only 5'0" and my new custom made gear is a Small -1 (I think that correspondes to a 13" MLW). I never realized how much of difference it could make. I wasn't wearing gloves on that jump and I can only imagine how that could've compounded the situation even worse.

Glad you're ok.
Christina

[JumpRu 14]

There is a cutaway handle in a form of "soft" loop. Some girls are using them and like them a lot. I'm thinking of getting one of those for myself :). Proper gloves could help but it is hard to keep balance they are ether too bulky and big or they are too cold :(.
I also very happy with newer sun path risers, they have excellent toggle keepers.

[Designer 0]

Glad you posted this.What happens when the parachute comes out of the bag is so important to recognize right away.I know in my mind(others) that as soon as we see a spin starting,getting the cut-away handle seems like the first approach.(Some people I knew make sure they grab the handle at opening to get a jump on a spinning canopy.)Usually it is the simple things like loose leg straps or a toggle unstowed.Think the idea remains keep your gear in good working order.A friend of mine kept wondering why he kept opening with a toggle unstowed.Sure enough I stated right away that toggle elastic is worn.GET WITH YOUR RIGGER.I will refuse to pack a rig if a toggle set up is so bad that it could compromise my work.Good lesson.rob

[AdD 1]

I just got a pair of curling gloves which work quite well in cold weather. cheap too

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[Skycaroline 0]

Quote

Was the harness custom made for you or off the rack/second hand?

Do you think the harness sizing contributed at all to being able pull the cutaway?

The Vector I was using on this jump was custom made for me. In fact the rig barely has 100 jumps on it since new (nr immaculate condition). So I don't consider sizing or condition to have been a factor in this particular case. You make a good point though; my very first rig was bought 'off the rack'. I sold it on to it's new (taller) owner as soon as I realised the problems it caused for me, (e.g. handle location under canopy and effect on body position (hence visability) during the skydive itself).

The problem in this case may have been the leg straps loosening during the skydive, which has a similar effect.

Any variable you can influence in this sport is important in my view!
Do all manufacturer's designs address this now?? my perception is that more of them do than when I bought this set of kit 2/3 years ago.

C.

[Skycaroline 0]

Quote

There are gloves available here that do a pretty good job keeping the hands warm without being too bulky.

Hi John!

I'd be interested in any information you have about these gloves... also whether they do them in a kids size. My problem with glove recommendations is that I can't always go for gloves sold for skydiving because even the XS sizes are 1/2 inch too long in the fingers. The gloves I use (and used on this jump) are cycling gloves - they are a thin-medium thickness neoprene on the back of the hands and a combination of thin leather and grip patches on the palms, I wear silk liners with them but they offer inadequate protection from the cold. I have some full neoprene kids diving gloves too, these are brilliant for the cold but I have only used them for skydiving once because of the movement restriction.

I'm becoming convinced that the solution is simply not to jump in the cold.... and anyone who knows me will know that I've been looking for a really good excuse for ages!

C.

[wmw999 2,452]

I've found that youth-sized gloves (older boys') are good for me. The fingers are short, but they're wider than women's gloves. The wider fingers means less constriction of the joints, and easier movement. It also means more effective warming, for me at least.

I hate gloves that are tight; short enough, and just a little loose on the fingers gives me plenty of dexterity (I can thread my motorcycle helmet with gloves on).

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[cbain 0]

Quote

The Vector I was using on this jump was custom made for me. In fact the rig barely has 100 jumps on it since new (nr immaculate condition). So I don't consider sizing or condition to have been a factor in this particular case. You make a good point though; my very first rig was bought 'off the rack'. I sold it on to it's new (taller) owner as soon as I realised the problems it caused for me, (e.g. handle location under canopy and effect on body position (hence visability) during the skydive itself).

I went back this weekend and was looking at some video of me right off student status when I first got that rig that was too big for me. The rig normally sat a full 6 inches off my back and the yoke would bump me in the back of the head! I sold that container to someone almost 6' tall and it fits them well. I've been trying to bring up this issue more often with shorter, especially women, since no one told me my rig was too big and I had to find out the hard way. I think it's over looked a lot, I mean we all jumped student gear that was most likely huge on us.

Quote

The problem in this case may have been the leg straps loosening during the skydive, which has a similar effect.

I can see where that would cause a similar effect but if the gear only has 100 jumps on it, it seems strange (at least to me) that the friction adapters would loosen that much in freefall, assuming they were tightened before the jump. Might have a rigger check the wear on the webbing and the hardware just to be sure.

Quote

Any variable you can influence in this sport is important in my view!
Do all manufacturer's designs address this now?? my perception is that more of them do than when I bought this set of kit 2/3 years ago.

C.

I've never had an issue with leg straps loosening in the air, at least not enough to notice. Maybe talk to your rigger about it and have them look over your gear.

Oh, and if you find good gloves let me know. I've been searching for a pair for a while but being down here in the south I've just been not using gloves at all.

Good luck.

Christina

[wmw999 2,452]

I've had good luck with tackified football gloves in youth sizes, and motorcycle gloves. Both are reasonably strong (stronger than batters' gloves), and have held up well. Particularly the football gloves. They're also not constricting to my hands.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[cbain 0]

Thanks Wendy, I'll look into the football gloves. I've tried mechanics gloves and motorcycle gloves but wan't able to find anything small enough.

Christina

[adobelover 0]

I found the youth size XS Batting Gloves fit perfectly are warm enough, provide plenty of dexterity and they STAY on. My bones are old and I have Arthritis in my hands...sometimes it's just TOO cold to wait around in sub freezing temps for a jump!

_________________________________________


Old age ain't no place for sissies!

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

I've found that youth-sized gloves (older boys') are good for me. The fingers are short, but they're wider than women's gloves. The wider fingers means less constriction of the joints, and easier movement. It also means more effective warming, for me at least.

I hate gloves that are tight; short enough, and just a little loose on the fingers gives me plenty of dexterity (I can thread my motorcycle helmet with gloves on).

Wendy W.

You're from Texas - you don't know about cold.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

There are gloves available here that do a pretty good job keeping the hands warm without being too bulky.

Hi John!

I'd be interested in any information you have about these gloves... also whether they do them in a kids size. My problem with glove recommendations is that I can't always go for gloves sold for skydiving because even the XS sizes are 1/2 inch too long in the fingers. The gloves I use (and used on this jump) are cycling gloves - they are a thin-medium thickness neoprene on the back of the hands and a combination of thin leather and grip patches on the palms, I wear silk liners with them but they offer inadequate protection from the cold. I have some full neoprene kids diving gloves too, these are brilliant for the cold but I have only used them for skydiving once because of the movement restriction.

I'm becoming convinced that the solution is simply not to jump in the cold.... and anyone who knows me will know that I've been looking for a really good excuse for ages!

C.

I've been using gloves sold for hunters - neoprene all over, with thin wool liners. I've exited at -27F (-33C) with these and kept the feeling in my hands. I don't know what small sizes are available, though. My hands are regular "guy" size. I bought some chemical hand warmers but never thought it cold enough to want to try them on a jump.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,452]

Well, I used to jump in Massachusetts and Connecticut -- in the winter -- does that help
In those days, I used some lightweight leather gloves with (separate) knit liners; they still had short, fat fingers. Reaching the end of the finger with my fingertip is important to me.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

I've found that youth-sized gloves (older boys') are good for me. The fingers are short, but they're wider than women's gloves. The wider fingers means less constriction of the joints, and easier movement. It also means more effective warming, for me at least.

I hate gloves that are tight; short enough, and just a little loose on the fingers gives me plenty of dexterity (I can thread my motorcycle helmet with gloves on).

Wendy W.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good point Wendy.
Tight gloves are worse than no gloves because tight gloves restrict blood flow, leading to cold fingers, reduced grip strength and the long list of problems suffered by the original poster.

[Salsa_John 0]

I use scuba gloves 1.5 mil neoprene uppers and leather lowers. I have great touch sensation and they block wind great. they breathe too.

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Avion 0]

My eight grade science teacher told me the secret of keeping one hands warm skiing in 1977. Wear wool gloves under leather mittens. It works great.

Back to topic. I'm just starting out, and my rig has a pillow cutaway and a D-ring reserve. I was thinking I might get a D-ring cutaway too. Because it will be awhile before I do any real 4 way stuff, so d-rings will be OK, and all you have to do is get you thumb through it and push. That much easier to do with cold hands and under stress than trying to grab and pull a pillow. I suppose the soft rings would work just as well, although I have yet to see them.

Cheers, and congrats for making through such a situation. This forum always helps me temper my enthusiasm with a little bracing sobriety.

[Bigwallmaster 0]

The best gloves for cold days are made by Mountain Hardware. They are constructed of windstopper gortex, and they are not overly bulky. They are similar to the gloves used by American Football athletes, but warmer. I use them for ice climbing; placing ice screws when leading is not easy with bulky gloves, if not impossible. I would search for them at:

www.mountiangear.com

Cheers,

J.P.

[kelpdiver 2]

It's probably worth noting at this point that you can lose the battle of cold hands on the plane ride up. If you're underdressed and your core temp drops, the body will let the arms and legs get cold.