Andy9o8 2 #51 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteI want to be next to the door....if something goes wrong with the aircraft, I want to be the first out. I second this. You second being first? Who is on third? I Don't Know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 475 #52 August 12, 2008 I've fallen out of a 182 at 8k when I tried to get comfortable with big guy leaning against my rig as we were wedged in - he moved and apparantly they could hear me screaming for about 5 secondsBut the worst I've seen was when the pilot didn't put the brakes on and a jumper fell and hit his face on the wheel during his exit. As I really enjoy flying I also did a ferry trip with no parachute and no door with another jumper (also no rig). That is the only time I have been really scared as we flew the ~20mile trip sitting on some sort of plywood sheet (don't remember what it was) and it was shifting around. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #53 August 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I want to be next to the door....if something goes wrong with the aircraft, I want to be the first out. I second this. You second being first? Who is on third? Who's scoring the home run? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #54 August 12, 2008 Quote To me this is funny. I love jumping and it really doesn't bother me too much anymore. Sure I'm afraid every time, but very calm and collected. The one thing that does scare the crap out of me is sitting on the floor of the plane, next to the door. Especially when they open the door and I'm sitting there scared to death that the pilot is going to turn and I'm going to fall out. And I hate it when I'm asked to open the door. Please don't do that. Anyone else with me on this? lol :) Why are you sitting close to the door? Freeflyer (-groups)? Perhaps, jump runs in in the US are different but, with your jump number I wonder why you are the one to open the door, to sit next to the door? OK, it depends on the plane. But, in the Otter ...?? When are you sitting at the door?? Just curious. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #55 August 12, 2008 he probably does a lot of group belly. hence hes close to the door. what do jump numbers have to do with opening and sitting next to the door? thats a pretty weird (see: dumb) comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #56 August 12, 2008 Quotehe probably does a lot of group belly. hence hes close to the door. what do jump numbers have to do with opening and sitting next to the door? thats a pretty weird (see: dumb) comment. OK, in your well experienced eyes it's weird. It's not, buddy. RW in large groups, with about 100 jumps? Perhaps. Doing FF, exiting in large groups? Perhaps. If you do not know what I'm talking about (you're in same jump No. range like OP), ask your instructor. For what I know from jumping here and in several other countries, the low numbers are not sitting close to the door. But, as mentioned, that depends on the plane. In a small Cessna, he probably will be placed close to the door. Like I was with my poor 30+ jumps, compared to the other 3 jumpers which just left AFF jumps behind - yes, I opened the door as I was the most "experienced" one. OP complained about sitting next to the door. How many time, always ??? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #57 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuotehe probably does a lot of group belly. hence hes close to the door. what do jump numbers have to do with opening and sitting next to the door? thats a pretty weird (see: dumb) comment. OK, in your well experienced eyes it's weird. It's not, buddy. RW in large groups, with about 100 jumps? Perhaps. Doing FF, exiting in large groups? Perhaps. If you do not know what I'm talking about (you're in same jump No. range like OP), ask your instructor. For what I know from jumping here and in several other countries, the low numbers are not sitting close to the door. But, as mentioned, that depends on the plane. In a small Cessna, he probably will be placed close to the door. Like I was with my poor 30+ jumps, compared to the other 3 jumpers which just left AFF jumps behind - yes, I opened the door as I was the most "experienced" one. OP complained about sitting next to the door. How many time, always ??? 4 people is considered a large group now? I'm routinely on loads where a 4 way is first out. Also idk how your dz does it but at my dz freeflyers, no matter how big the group, are always out after belly. I still don't see what jump numbers have to do with sitting next to the door. If you could elaborate a bit I would appreciate it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #58 August 12, 2008 Quote ... 4 people is considered a large group now? I'm routinely on loads where a 4 way is first out. Also idk how your dz does it but at my dz freeflyers, no matter how big the group, are always out after belly. I still don't see what jump numbers have to do with sitting next to the door. If you could elaborate a bit I would appreciate it. No, I did not say that 4 ppl is considered a large group. That was you, dear. Just leave the plane like jump run is done at your DZ. And just do a few hundred jumps more. Then let's talk again. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #59 August 12, 2008 what is the exit order at your dz. jump #'s should never be used for exit order. type of jump, group size and opening alyitude is what matters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #60 August 12, 2008 Quote what is the exit order at your dz. jump #'s should never be used for exit order. type of jump, group size and opening alyitude is what matters. Largest groups, RW and FF, at first. After, single jumpers, lowest numbers beeing the last (pulling higher). AFF, tandems. Low number single jumpers are not sitting next to the door. Except: In a small plane, like explained before. But not in the Otter, f.e. Edited to add: Jump Nos. ARE a concern. No matter what jumper wants to do: The lower his jump No., the more he's at the end of tail. Lesser jump Nos. do pull higher. And do not sit at the door. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #61 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuote what is the exit order at your dz. jump #'s should never be used for exit order. type of jump, group size and opening alyitude is what matters. Largest groups, RW and FF, at first. After, single jumpers, lowest numbers beeing the last (pulling higher). AFF, tandems. the group portion is the same as my dz with the exception of the single. It goes ALL rw from biggest to smallest (solo belly) then ALL freefly from biggest to smallest (solo freefly). Quote Low number single jumpers are not sitting next to the door. Except: In a small plane, like explained before. But not in the Otter, f.e. this is where your logic is faulty. you seem to be assuming that people with 100 or so jumps are not doing RW. Now he may not have been, idk, but still. Idk what they recommend as number of jumps before starting RW in Germany but here its basicly from graduation on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #62 August 12, 2008 its not the jump #'s but the opening altitude that is important Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #63 August 12, 2008 I'm still trying to understand your logic. Are you saying they should not be sitting next to the door simply because of their number of jumps or because they MAY be pulling higher with their number of jumps? The higher pulling is somewhat faulty thinking as well because, in the states, with an A license (25 jumps) you can pull at 3,000. I know some D license holders, some with PRO ratings, that wont go under 3. I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting. I'm really trying to understand your logic behind 'low jump numbers shouldn't be sitting by the door'. I'd really appreciate it if you would elaborate more or give more detail on your thinking on this view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucet7 0 #64 August 12, 2008 QuoteI'm still trying to understand your logic. Are you saying they should not be sitting next to the door simply because of their number of jumps or because they MAY be pulling higher with their number of jumps? The higher pulling is somewhat faulty thinking as well because, in the states, with an A license (25 jumps) you can pull at 3,000. I know some D license holders, some with PRO ratings, that wont go under 3. I'm not trying to be offensive or insulting. I'm really trying to understand your logic behind 'low jump numbers shouldn't be sitting by the door'. I'd really appreciate it if you would elaborate more or give more detail on your thinking on this view. The logic comes in averages. A-3000, B-2500, C & D - 2000. Generally speaking higher jump numbers would open lower. Your D friend at 3000 not withstanding. We don't ask license or jumps, we ask pull altitude. And we sometimes adjust our pull to coordinate with those around us. I was a visitor at 2 different DZs this month. One asked me to open a little lower than I first said to help avoid the AFFI getting down to man the radio. The other asked me to open just a little higher so she could get below me and guide me down.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #65 August 12, 2008 This actually presents an interesting question. How many people wait till their minimum pull altitude to pull? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucet7 0 #66 August 12, 2008 Yes it does. And anything I might add would be pure conjecture.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #67 August 12, 2008 well i just put up a poll. hopefully it will get enough responses to be representative. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #68 August 13, 2008 I pull at 4k when I'm jumping with my rookie RW team. We still go out first (if we're the largest belly group). The solo FF going out towards the end may pull at 2k. I thought that's what exit separation was for. edit: corrected pull altitude Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaRusic 0 #69 August 13, 2008 only thing i can really think of, cause i was scared of the door opening too but really helped me was the realization of who cares if i fall out when the door opens, i was going out anyway and this just makes the exit that much more interesting haha. Most fearful time for me was a CASA military jump, our herc was down so we loaded a casa with all of our gear for a full kit jump. i was first out second pass so i was standing right at the ramp looking out at 1000ft while the plane was racetracking around for the next pass, made be a bit nervous trying to stand there with 100lbs of gear right at the ramp holding my static line trying to balance as the plane was turning. Looking back it was pretty cool cause the view was amazing but i was terrified at the timeThe Altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel not in the plane are totally worthless Dudeist Skydiver # 10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aresye 0 #70 August 13, 2008 It really depends on what groups are going out. Even at Skydive San Diego, if we're doing a 3-Way belly, we'll likely be first out. Let's also not forget track dives. Generally trackers are let out first, because they're leaving the jump run airspace entirely. I've sat and operated the door, plus spotted, at both San Diego and Elsinore, when I was at 30-40 jumps. It isn't based on jump numbers, or experience. We're all trained in spotting, and we're all trained in exit order. If we happen to be the first ones out, we should already be qualified to operate the door, check for clear airspace, spot the DZ (taking in mind the uppers), and not leaving until given the go ahead. I don't see how jump numbers play any roll in this. Sure a more experienced skydiver will likely be BETTER at spotting, but in order to get our license, we must spot an aircraft without assistance. It's a basic skill we all have, and we can all do, if needed. How about I go out and do 400 solos, pulling at 4,500 each time, and never spotting, or using the door. Once I get to 480, does that automatically make me more qualified to operate the door, than a guy with 50 jumps, who's done more spotting, and jump run planning? I freakin hate people that blow others off because they have less jumps than they do. It's a bad attitude, and one of the downfalls in this sport.Skydiving: You either learn from other's mistakes, or they'll learn from yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #71 August 13, 2008 Quote Come to think of it, that was a few months ago and I haven’t seen him since. LOL. Wait were you on the plane? I've had some personal things going on so I've not jumped in weeks, but mark my word I will be at the DZ this weekend to get in some jumps and catch up a bit. I think I'll pull high this weekend so I don't have to sit next to the door? j/kRodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #72 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote he probably does a lot of group belly. hence hes close to the door. what do jump numbers have to do with opening and sitting next to the door? thats a pretty weird (see: dumb) comment. Na see, actually what happened was this was the Skyfest boogie. The loads were loading at the other side of the dz behind the hangar and they usually load right beside the hangar next to manifest. I was waiting on Adam (he was doing video for me) to get there and he got there a little late so we had to jump in and sit down quickly. That's why I ended up next to the door. I just posted the thread because I knew a lot of people would be able to relate to that fear of sitting next to the door, yet we are jumping out of the freakin airplane soon anyway. It's just funny like that.Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #73 August 13, 2008 Quote its not the jump #'s but the opening altitude that is important Low(er) jump Nos. usually do open much higher, so will not jump at first. At least where I use to jump. Accordingly, a 100 #s jumper will not sit next to the door and exit before FF groups, large RW groups. I thought that was clear to everybody. Or: @ skittles_of_SDC: During jump run, do FF or RW groups at your DZ step over the guy with 100 jumps sitting next to/opening the door?? What is mysterious to me: Why is OP complaining? Is it a MUST for him to sit next to the door? How many times did he do it? If he's got that much fear, why not talking to his DZ folks to let him sit in the tail of plane? OK, if he's in a small Cessna with a tandem and an AFF guy ... that's different. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skittles_of_SDC 0 #74 August 13, 2008 QuoteQuote its not the jump #'s but the opening altitude that is important Low(er) jump Nos. usually do open much higher, so will not jump at first. At least where I use to jump. Accordingly, a 100 #s jumper will not sit next to the door and exit before FF groups, large RW groups. I thought that was clear to everybody. Or: @ skittles_of_SDC: During jump run, do FF or RW groups at your DZ step over the guy with 100 jumps sitting next to/opening the door?? What is mysterious to me: Why is OP complaining? Is it a MUST for him to sit next to the door? How many times did he do it? If he's got that much fear, why not talking to his DZ folks to let him sit in the tail of plane? OK, if he's in a small Cessna with a tandem and an AFF guy ... that's different. I wouldn't say more experienced jumpers open MUCH lower. See my thread. You still don't seem to understand that people with 100 jumps are sometimes on those RW groups. Also when I was still at like 30 or 40 jumps I occasionally was first one out doing belly solos because the rest of the load was freefliers. and since I was first out I was the one sitting next to the door. I have no idea what you are talking about with people stepping over 100 jump numbers. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY JUMPS YOU HAVE. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE FIRST ONE'S OUT YOU WILL BE SITTING BY THE DOOR. Your logic is very flawed in the way you are looking at the exit order. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #75 August 13, 2008 Quote Quote Quote its not the jump #'s but the opening altitude that is important Low(er) jump Nos. usually do open much higher, so will not jump at first. At least where I use to jump. Accordingly, a 100 #s jumper will not sit next to the door and exit before FF groups, large RW groups. I thought that was clear to everybody. Or: @ skittles_of_SDC: During jump run, do FF or RW groups at your DZ step over the guy with 100 jumps sitting next to/opening the door?? What is mysterious to me: Why is OP complaining? Is it a MUST for him to sit next to the door? How many times did he do it? If he's got that much fear, why not talking to his DZ folks to let him sit in the tail of plane? OK, if he's in a small Cessna with a tandem and an AFF guy ... that's different. I wouldn't say more experienced jumpers open MUCH lower. See my thread. You still don't seem to understand that people with 100 jumps are sometimes on those RW groups. Also when I was still at like 30 or 40 jumps I occasionally was first one out doing belly solos because the rest of the load was freefliers. and since I was first out I was the one sitting next to the door. I have no idea what you are talking about with people stepping over 100 jump numbers. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY JUMPS YOU HAVE. IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE FIRST ONE'S OUT YOU WILL BE SITTING BY THE DOOR. Your logic is very flawed in the way you are looking at the exit order. I do understand that sometimes, jumpers with lower jump numbers are part of a RW pack! Jesus, I've seen them, can you imagine?? But, that was not question of this thread. OP did not say a word about any RW group. So let's talk about a solo jumper, that's impression he and entire thread communication left to me. Until today, I never saw a low No. jumper (say 30 jumps) exiting before a FF group - never. You can imagine, they are a bit quicker than you, right? (Or did you count until 20?) Or your hard deck is at 1000 ft? If it's usual at your DZ. OK, I don't mind. If you ever should bother to jump in Europe, just read local rules. JFI: I jumped in Spain (most of jump Nos.), Belgium, Switzerland, Netherland, Canada, South Africa. Various kinds of planes. Small and large helicopters. Jump runs always were the same. As I stated before. Quote IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE FIRST ONE'S OUT YOU WILL BE SITTING BY THE DOOR. Says who? Who made the decision for "YOU"? What BS is that? As per my experience, jumpers talk to each other. (High pull? How many jumps? Doing what? OK, you're behind me ..... etc.) dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
