anthonyfellows 0 #1 July 6, 2008 I just entered the AFF program at the beginning of June ... My next jump is a Cat C with one instructor. My Cat B jump wasn't that great in terms of arching my body and yesterday I did a Cat C with two instructors and had the same problem. There were two weeks between the Cat B and Cat C that I practiced the arch at home every night on the floor and standing in a door way per my instructors advice. I feel like I worked really hard at practice arching and thought it would pay off ... but ... It didn't seem to pay off as much as I expected it to. Yesterday during the 2 instructor Cat C, I still had the same issues. I've been told that the upper body portion of the arch is progressing, but something is stopping me from getting my pelvis in the position that it needs to be in and I'm not sure what that is. I'm 24 years old, in good shape, and I feel like I should have the ability to do this ... I'm just at a loss for what to do next. I'll continue practice arching this week and jump again on Saturday. I just wish I knew or felt as if I'm still on the path to fixing the problem. I have video of each jump thus far on my website if anyone wants to check out the body position and comment on it. Thanks for your help! -Tony http://www.anthonyfellows.comSerious relationships turn into work after a few weeks and I already got a fucking job :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ H.A.F. = Hard As Fuck ... Goddamn Amateurs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #2 July 6, 2008 Your instructors should be able to get you feedback that resolves this. If not, find some other instructors.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #3 July 6, 2008 For me to view your videos, your website requires downloading more software, which I don't want to do. Unfortunately, decent training wind tunnels are few and far between; but shelling out for a day at a wind tunnel (which would probably mean a long weekend for you) might be a good investment for you. You can focus (and get good coaching) exclusively on freefall skills, without having to worry about (a) student "jump fear", (b) canopy piloting or (c) the (comparative) brevity of freefall a single jump entering into the mix. Per a quick mapquest search, the closest tunnel to you (in Indy) which I think is suitable for skydiving training is in Raeford, NC - about a 12 hour driving trip. Or, especially if you're willing to fly, the wind tunnels in Colorado, New Hampshire, Orlando FL, Eloy AZ and Perris CA are also all very good. (Personally I probably would not recommend the tunnels in Las Vegas, Pigeon Forge TN or Niagara Falls ONT). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #4 July 6, 2008 What did your instructors tell you to do to improve your arch? I'm not downloading anything to watch the videos either... but I have a few ideas based on the photos. "Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #5 July 6, 2008 You should be good at freeflying later on if that is any bonus?I agree if your instructors can't help you, do not hesitate to try other instructors. Some instructors are great flyers but terrible teachers and vice versa. My fiancee had trouble in AFF and was told to try something else by her first instructor, she found a different instructor and passed on the first attemt, the stage she had been trying and failing previously for 4 attempts. She now has over 5000 jumps a world record, and is competing in the world championships. I cannot say this is the case for you but you should consider the possibility. Hang in there and keep smiling. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #6 July 6, 2008 Not knowing your specific issues, I cannot help... But I will say in GENERAL I have had great success with students telling them to keep their chin very high, as it then rounds out their chest and puts the pelvis the lowest... Plus, raising the chin is easy. So, consider equating in your mind "arch = chin up." But tell your instructors what you are doing before the jump so they can see if it is working. Oh, simile and stick out your tongue too... It helps. Laugh a bit too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anthonyfellows 0 #7 July 7, 2008 They told me to continue to practice on the floor at home, which I will continue to do. I just thought I would have shown some improvement after doing it for two weeks. By the way ... you're the second person who has mentioned downloading something. It's a microsoft silverlight browser plugin. It isn't as if you're downloading something that only gives you the ability to watch my videos. The videos are also on youtube, no need for the plugin for those ... http://www.youtube.com/user/anthonyfellowsSerious relationships turn into work after a few weeks and I already got a fucking job :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ H.A.F. = Hard As Fuck ... Goddamn Amateurs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kawisixer01 0 #8 July 7, 2008 I found the easiest way to find the right "feeling" when i started was to hang from a bar or like an i-beam in the basement and almost stretch your stomach. get your belly button out there. think of your belly button as your go button. you wanna fall fast and level push with your go button. or as my instructor said "push with the bush". lol oh and I found that getting laid the night before or right before going to the dz does wonders for loosening you up. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redlegphi 0 #9 July 7, 2008 I just watched your Cat C. You don't look relaxed at all. Your knees look like they're actually below the plane of your body. Relax and let the wind pull them up into the arch. Arching in the air should be a hell of a lot easier than arching on the ground since the air will help you arch. The air wants you to arch. Let it help you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #10 July 7, 2008 Read my student logbook: http://crwdog.servebeer.com/CRWdog/HowCRW.html I sucked and it was mainly mental :-) I'm not going to give you any advice over the Internet about how to fix it other than stick with it :-) I even got the bowling ball speech once but somehow I finally got it and 5000 jumps later I'm an AFF instructor :-) Stick with it and keep trying... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #11 July 7, 2008 Try arching on an air mattress in a swimming pool. Or just build a natural one and eat a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #12 July 7, 2008 One of your instructors on your Cat A was Jay Stokes. My personal votes is he's qualified. What I'm seeing is that your knees are VERY wide. I also noticed instructors on at least one occasion signaling you to put your knees shoulder width (bring them closer together). It is impossible to arch with your legs spread that far. It creates an automatic DE-arch which puts your knees below you as is shown in the video. This is creating a major instability issue. Please review this with your instructors in more detail but in my opinion the first thing you need to do is to bring your legs closer together, then you can put your hip bone down and extend your toes. Until you fix the knees being so wide the “arch” issue is not possible to fix. BTW: a wind tunnel helped me resolve me body issues when I was in AFF. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #13 July 7, 2008 Don't worry about it. Your knees are too far apart. Relax and bring them in towards a shoulder width spacing and that will allow you to push your hips into the wind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taaZeCV6nl8 Compare this flyer's body position and knee placement to your videos for Category B and C. If you replicate the knee placement of this flyer, most if your arching problems will be fixed. "Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micduran 0 #14 July 7, 2008 The strangest, but most useful, advice I was ever given - Pretend you have a quarter between your butt cheeks and squeeze to hold it there. When you do that your pelvis automatically protrudes giving you a more pronounced arch. I've told that to many people and they all say it helps. Good luck.Be patient with the faults of others; they have to be patient with yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anthonyfellows 0 #15 July 7, 2008 QuoteThe strangest, but most useful, advice I was ever given - Pretend you have a quarter between your butt cheeks and squeeze to hold it there. When you do that your pelvis automatically protrudes giving you a more pronounced arch. I've told that to many people and they all say it helps. Good luck. Maybe I should actually put a quarter in my ass :) I'm open to anything at this point .. lol.Serious relationships turn into work after a few weeks and I already got a fucking job :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ H.A.F. = Hard As Fuck ... Goddamn Amateurs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anthonyfellows 0 #16 July 7, 2008 Quote One of your instructors on your Cat A was Jay Stokes. My personal votes is he's qualified. What I'm seeing is that your knees are VERY wide. I also noticed instructors on at least one occasion signaling you to put your knees shoulder width (bring them closer together). It is impossible to arch with your legs spread that far. It creates an automatic DE-arch which puts your knees below you as is shown in the video. This is creating a major instability issue. Please review this with your instructors in more detail but in my opinion the first thing you need to do is to bring your legs closer together, then you can put your hip bone down and extend your toes. Until you fix the knees being so wide the “arch” issue is not possible to fix. BTW: a wind tunnel helped me resolve me body issues when I was in AFF. Yes ... Jay has been with me for every aff jump thus far and he has been great. He is a pretty amazing person. Since you've mentioned it ... I do always seem to feel like my legs are spread too far apart. The wind tunnel also sounds like a fabulous idea. I think it would be worth the investment for me to spend a weekend in NC.Serious relationships turn into work after a few weeks and I already got a fucking job :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ H.A.F. = Hard As Fuck ... Goddamn Amateurs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreaming13000 1 #17 July 7, 2008 I just graduated on Saturday. Before my level 3 I was flying "legs wide" i was still solid but it was giving me some problems. I studied my arch and dive flow from the SIM. Some things that worked for me a) are you breathing well? or do you feel like you held your breath the whole freefall? I started regulating my breathing by 10,500 when jumping from 13,000 and that helped me breath regularly out of the door this in turn would help relax my arch allowing me to notice my legs. (positive pressure on shins and tops of feet) b) also another trick from the SIM. Everytime I checked my altimeter I went through a mental count "horizon, altimeter, arch, legs, relax" These two things helped me, so hopefully they can help you as well....Keep trying! Good luck! and Blue skies!!! also I did the wind tunnel the weekend before I completed my AFF levels3-7. Not only is it like practice but it is fun too!"A man only gets in life what he is believing for, nothing more and nothing less" Kenneth Hagen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #18 July 7, 2008 I would echo what the others said! Wind tunnel is a great tool and they will help you sort your leg positioning and arch out... Without the stress of freefall! Also, relax as someone else said and stick your belly out...and try and point your toes up behind you to the sky while pushing your legs UP and BACK. This will naturally make you arch. Also, you maybe have an issue of knowing where exactly your feet are. Try lying on your belly in front of the tv or elsewhere. bend your legs as close as you can to the correct position and tap your feet together ..move them up and down and tap together at various times to confirm they are synchronised... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #19 July 7, 2008 QuoteYes ... Jay has been with me for every aff jump thus far and he has been great. He is a pretty amazing person. Since you've mentioned it ... I do always seem to feel like my legs are spread too far apart. The wind tunnel also sounds like a fabulous idea. I think it would be worth the investment for me to spend a weekend in NC. Jay is one of the best skydivers, instructors, and people I've ever had the pleasure to meet. Catch him at the end of the day when he has some time and talk to him. I guarantee he can help you. You don’t know how lucky you are to have had him on your jumps with you. And as a personal story, I repeated an AFF level 4 times and another level 3 times before going to a wind tunnel. After one hour in the tunnel I absolutely rocked through the rest of the student progression. If you are seriously dedicated to learning to skydiving consider doing it."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hacker44240 0 #20 July 7, 2008 I second the comments about the legs too wide. But also, and especially, the remarks about relaxing. It is worth emphasizing the point. When they say relax more, they don't mean "chill out more dude". They literally mean relax your muscle tone. Don't hold your muscles so rigid. Let them go more limp. Not totally limp, just more limp. Then the wind will blow your body into the right position for you. Getting that was a major breakthrough for me. It takes a while, but you'll definitely get it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #21 July 8, 2008 Quote Maybe I should actually put a quarter in my ass I've heard that pretending it's a gerbil is even better. I'm not quite sure why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #22 July 8, 2008 Quote Quote Maybe I should actually put a quarter in my ass I've heard that pretending it's a gerbil is even better. I'm not quite sure why. Ask Richard Gere "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #23 July 8, 2008 Drink more beer. You will develop a built-in arch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robskydiv 0 #24 July 9, 2008 That was a cute answer NightingGale. Anthony, I remember practicing "the Arch" after my first tandem. It had gone terrible, sensory overload, didn't have any kind of altitude awareness, etc... But it finally kicked in. Just hang in there. Harry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #25 July 9, 2008 Anthony You already got the video's of your challenging freefall position and your instructor is Mr Stokes that and some simple communication with Jay should be enough. IMO you don't really need to spend the added time and expense of a tunnel to solve a simple body position problem. Mr STOKES is very approachable, show him your video and discuss your concerns. I think he'll be able to set you straight,Pls Tell Jay "R.I.P." says hi.R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
