popsjumper 2 #76 July 24, 2008 Thank you, guys. Hopefully, Jim, you are right...hopefully I live long enough to see the day. Black eyes...maybe the "jumpers" will weed themselves out either by lack of focus or by attrition and we can get back to "skydivers".My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #77 July 24, 2008 For those that are concerned about this shit how about being proactive for a change and getting the word out to the public and explaining to them the reason sometimes things go wrong and reassuring them that some of the incidents are very isolated?? You know, the more you post about the subject, the more you show how little you really know... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #78 July 24, 2008 QuoteAs far as the whole demo thing goes, shit happens there also. If someone doesnt take out a spectator, then perhaps someone will hook it in in front of the crowd. There is always a chance something will go wrong, and sooner or later something will go wrong. Oh yeah, thats right, its easier to just complain about it instead of doing something about it. I believe in free will. It's not preordained that someone swoops into the crowd and kills a few spectators. It's a choice to not manage the increased risks of a demo jump properly. It's a mind set of "Safe, hell, I need to wow the crowd." That's where we need some education. Only reactive? No, but we react to these incidents. That's human. There are proactive measures to try to improve safety on demo jumps, including requiring a PRO rating for the tighter ones. I know a few guys who do some of the big time demos professionally. They don't let their egos write checks their abilities can't cash. Too many other people do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflymickey 0 #79 July 24, 2008 Quote For those that are concerned about this shit how about being proactive for a change and getting the word out to the public and explaining to them the reason sometimes things go wrong and reassuring them that some of the incidents are very isolated?? You know, the more you post about the subject, the more you show how little you really know...What are you talking about???? I bring up a very valid point. Skydiving is not the only sport in the world that has incidents happen that affect the general public. When ever has the USPA issued a press release to the general public to dispel fear, concern or just in general to make a statement about a public demo that went wrong??? When for that matter has anyone in the skydiving community tried to do such a thing. You can try and improve internally within the sport but the topic of this thread is that of the publics perception as a result of something going wrong. The skydiving community doesnt do dick about that perception but bitch about it internally with other members of the sport. If there is such concern get off your fucking asses and start appealing to the very masses that you are so concerned about being turned off by these black eyes!!! I am sure someone will suggest why dont I do it. To be "proactive" and respond to that inevitable comment is because I am not the one who gives a shit about what the public thinks of our sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #80 July 24, 2008 As far as the whole demo thing goes, shit happens there also. If someone doesn't take out a spectator, then perhaps someone will hook it in in front of the crowd. There is always a chance something will go wrong, and sooner or later something will go wrong. Oh yeah, that's right, its easier to just complain about it instead of doing something about it. Like I said...you don't have a fuckin' clue do ya? " perhaps someone will hook it in in front of the crowd" ~Not if they don't...never seen an open parachute hook itself without control input from the operator. If you choose NOT to do a hook turn, I can pretty much guarantee you won't...Knowing your skills and limitations, planning for all eventualities...then having a back-up plan and a back up to the back up. I have over 1000 paid demos, I've never ONCE been hurt or hurt someone else...it's called professionalism. It takes thought, planning & practice...sure it's a lot easier to 'wing it' and hope everything goes well. But that can be a recipe for disaster. If you allow for the possibility of injury in your planning and execution, quite possibly it will eventually happen. If and when it does...you SHOULD be singled out and chastised for giving the sport a 'black eye'... especially if you are a demo jumper. IT'S YOUR JOB not to fuck up!~Proactive? ~I've done more radio and television interviews than I can count over the past 30 years promoting events I'm working and the sport overall. There have been times when the interview turns to 'such & such' incident...one tries to put a positive spin but it's tough when you know, and quite likely they know, somebody screwed the pooch & headlines were the result. Would be a whole lot easier if it hadn't happened...and if the jumper(s) involved had stepped it down a notch, it probably wouldn't have. ...again, it's a self-regulation thing. Most people don't want to be 'that guy' that screwed the pooch and gave the sport negative publicity. The fact you don't understand that and the weak ass arguments you keep making only serve to further enhance the moniker of tourist in the sport. Hopefully one day you'll 'get it'...and no doubt you will, if ya stick around long enough. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #81 July 24, 2008 The skydiving community doesnt do dick about that perception but bitch about it internally with other members of the sport. ~you really DO need to get out more! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,545 #82 July 24, 2008 QuoteWhen was the last time the skydiving community took the media head on and issued a response to a certain incident???"The skydiving community" can't do that. The USPA, or BPA, or other organizations could, but they don't usually have the information in a timely fashion. Individual DZOs can when there's an incident, but with all the suing going on, it's not surprising they don't. People can be proactive like Jim and go do professional demos and talk them up. That counts. But the other thing that can be done is to minimize the number of incidents that need to be explained. That one has the upside of fewer of our friends hurt and/or killed; sounds like a win-win situation to me. The skydivers are no more a single monolithic group that can react to something than are surfers, bikers, Albanians, or Americans. Each can contribute their part to the image, but the image is seen from the outside, not the inside. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #83 July 24, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Still waiting on real examples of the harm all these black eyes have caused....... I've had demos denied by people pointing to these incidents. Killiing and injuring bystanders is never a good thing, either. Or is that okay in your world? Nope, not okay in my world. Never said it was. Shit happens. Shit will always happen in this sport, until people stop jumping from airplanes then people will continue to die when jumping from airplanes. . That is just a cop-out. The overwhelming majority of skydiving accidents are due to jumper error, and could have been avoided. While it is true that you can do everything right and still die, very few accidents involve people who did everything right.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #84 July 30, 2008 QuoteThe fact that you are to naive to see how giving the sport negative public perception, or a black eye as it were, speaks volumes of the myopic view you take regarding the sport that many of us have dedicated a decade or three, trying to enhance the positive public view and understanding of. Or this speaks troll. Your profile shows you have 1600 jumps and 7 years in the sport, and you don't know that demo's don't happen on the dropzone. Hmmmm. I smell a trouble maker here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflymickey 0 #85 July 30, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe fact that you are to naive to see how giving the sport negative public perception, or a black eye as it were, speaks volumes of the myopic view you take regarding the sport that many of us have dedicated a decade or three, trying to enhance the positive public view and understanding of. Or this speaks troll. Your profile shows you have 1600 jumps and 7 years in the sport, and you don't know that demo's don't happen on the dropzone. Hmmmm. I smell a trouble maker here. When did I say I dont know demos dont happen on the dropzone? What I said was I can understand the cause for concern if a DEMO ON A DROPZONE went wrong and thus endangered the existance of said dropzone. QuoteIf the demo was done on a dropzone and the dropzone was permanently shut down then I can understand concern. Hmmmm. I smell someone that did not read the thread in its entirety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
