RSL Cutaway

[nicknitro71 0]

Yesterday, 02/13/05.

Third jump of the day. 10 sec delay out of 4000. My X-FX 111 @ 1.66 started to deploy in a line twist. During the snivel I got a total of three line twist. After full inflation the canopy started to spin very violently. I was facing skywards. After the first revolution I knew I had to chop it. It seems it was like curling 40-45 Lb just to lift my hand to reach for the handle. I got the other hand in there, just in case, and clink-clink. By the time I got my hand to the silver I was under a fully inflated Tempo 150 with no line twist and just flying dandy.
I landed uneventfully at the DZ. The canopy and free bag landed not far from the DZ in a nice back yard. I recover all the toys so the incident casted me nada, just my own repack

A buddy of mine was on the same load and witnessed everything, he did a 2-3 sec H&P and was above me.
He said that I chopped by the third revolution and from the cutaway to reserve ride it looked I lost no more than 100'.

I've always been an advocate of the RSL. I always have one connected beside when I do CRW. I've always said that after my first cutaway I was going do decide to keep it or not. Well I had my first cutaway and I will continue to use the RSL.
I am one of the few experienced skydivers at my DZ who use a RSL. The unfortunate trend is that even novices right off student status disconnect it because of unsubstantiated bias (for the most part) against it.

By the way I was blown away by the performance of the Tempo 150. It seems to me I was flying a Spectre or Triathlon of the same size. On landing it even pop me right back up because I gave too much toggles. I really did not aspect that much flaring power. If i knew it I would have swooped it

Lessons learned: My pack job worked (at least one of them and RSL rules!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[sid 1]

well done Nick, glad that you made it okay! Nothing like chopping and realizing that the same dickhead that packed the main, packed the reserve.......

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[bodypilot1 0]

RSL's are a CHOICE.

After having a spinning cutaway on my highly loaded VX80, which lead to about 7 line twists on my now ground hungry spinning reserve, that I was able to kick out of barely at about 300ft, I chose not to have one anymore.

Glad thing worked out well you you.

Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[dropzonefool 0]

Few months ago a buddy did a hop-n-pop with a 5 second delay, his Vengeance 97 or 98 (I'm not sure) spun up on him and he had to chop. He was loaded at almost 2/1. Is there a tendency for high loaded high performance canopies to spin up on sub-terminal deployments? Thats what he and other blamed it on, and I was wondering if that is a factual statement.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

Is there a tendency for high loaded high performance canopies to spin up on sub-terminal deployments?

No. Competition deployements are almost always sub terminal.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

No. Competition deployements are almost always sub terminal.

I would think its more of a problem of people trying to fight the deployment when sub terminal if the canopy starts searching around, get too much input in a direction and make things worst.

That's my take on it, but Ian, what do you think?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

I would think its more of a problem of people trying to fight the deployment when sub terminal if the canopy starts searching around, get too much input in a direction and make things worst

I'd agree.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[dropzonefool 0]

thanks guys, so when the canopy starts to hunt and seek an off heading, and the jumper offer to much input, or over corrects.
------------------------------------------------------------

[ianmdrennan 2]

Yeah that can definately cause it and would most likely be the cuprit in the majority of these situations. That said, he Vengence supposedly known for it's squirrely openings (never jumped one so I can't say, but it is the most cutaway canopy that I've personally experienced through people I know). Also, bag spin can cause the canopy to come out of the bag already in line twists. I've had some instances of this when I was using a small pilot chute and had extremely slow extractions.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[JohnMitchell 16]

Quote

now ground hungry spinning reserve, that I was able to kick out of barely at about 300ft, I chose not to have one anymore.

I'm interested in your experience with a spun up reserve. What's the size, type, and wingloading on your reserve? I would sure as hell hate to have that happen to me.

[billvon 2,991]

>After having a spinning cutaway on my highly loaded VX80, which
> lead to about 7 line twists on my now ground hungry spinning
> reserve, that I was able to kick out of barely at about 300ft, I chose
> not to have one anymore.

To be fair, kicking out of line twists at 300 feet on a small ground hungry reserve is a heck of a lot better than opening said ground hungry reserve at 300 feet after taking 3-4 seconds to "get stable."

[cvfd1399 0]

I had something like this happen the other day, I pulled and had a longer than normal snivel and realized that on opening I tend to hold my right hip about 4 -6 inches lower than the left side after the P/C had sat me up. Luckily for me the snivel I was talking about lasted long enough that I noticed it and quickly sat up straight and evened my hips out. I was even before it opened up, so no twists. It was a hell of a snivel a piece of the fabric had gotten caught in a slider grommet and kept it from comming down for a second or two.

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

I'm interested in your experience with a spun up reserve. What's the size, type, and wingloading on your reserve? I would sure as hell hate to have that happen to me.

It was a PD113 exit weight was 178lbs.

Unstable cutaway had me flying like a frizbee.



Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

To be fair, kicking out of line twists at 300 feet on a small ground hungry reserve is a heck of a lot better than opening said ground hungry reserve at 300 feet after taking 3-4 seconds to "get stable."

That would mean you F**KED UP by pulling low in the first place, or didn't your altitude before you cutaway....

As I stated, "It's a choice".


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[billvon 2,991]

>That would mean you F**KED UP by pulling low in the first place,
>or didn't your altitude before you cutaway....

Oh, agreed. RSL's (like AAD's) are there primarily to keep you alive if you fuck up. It's one of those things that you'll probably never need, but if you do, you REALLY need it.

[GravityGirl 0]

I've had three spinners. None with an RSL. Two opened okay. The third in line twists.

I haven't had an spinner with an RSL, so I like hearing the feedback.

This IS a choice. I've been riding the fence on this one for some time.

For now I do NOT jump and RSL, AND I stay out of the basement because of that choice.

But skydiving is a continuous series of choices, and even old dogs learn new tricks by watching the game unfold.

Thanks for posting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[tkhayes 348]

I have said it many times before and will say it again, once you cutaway from something, (no matter how badly it is spinning), centrifugal forces will send your body in a straight line.

period.

Any kicking, flailing or rolling around beyond that is your body kicking and flailing trying to fix that, not the fault of the RSL.

Cutaway, even on your back. If you are going so fast, your pilot chute wil/should clear everything and deploy, and the reserve should deploy with no issues whatsoever.

If you are struggling, kicking and trying to roll over while all that is happening, then yes, just like that unstable AFF student at deployment time, you run the risk of line twists or worse.

TK

[nicknitro71 0]

I have said it many times before and will say it again, once you cutaway from something, (no matter how badly it is spinning), centrifugal forces will send your body in a straight line.

period.***

Ditto.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[billbooth 10]

In the last few years, we have filmed dozens of spinning cutaway tests on the Skyhook system. On a few of these tests, we have recorded rotation rates up to 360 degrees per second, post cutaway. What's worse, is that the relative wind, right after cutaway, is often "horizontally" across the jumpers body. On a standard RSL, this would result in uneven line lengths at line stretch. Combine line twists with uneven line lengths, and you might just get a spinning reserve canopy. As noted above, post cutaway spin rates that high are rare, but they would give me pause before jumping a standard RSL with a very high performance canopy. The Skyhook solves this problem placing the reserve canopy, not into the relative wind, but right where the main was a half a second before, directly in line with the jumpers body. So, even if you have a twist or two, you will not be spiraling from uneven line lengths.

[Darius11 12]

I had a very slow spinning mal. But I was still spinning when I chopped. The reserve a PD253 opened fine.

I went threw the same thing. I always said after my 1st cutaway I would decide if I want an RSL or not.

I am keeping mine until I am on a very small canopy. It will be at least a few years.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

On a standard RSL, this would result in uneven line lengths at line stretch. Combine line twists with uneven line lengths, and you might just get a spinning reserve canopy.

Bingo

Exactly what I had Bill.

I have yet to see footage of your Skyhook in action.
Have any footage?


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I have yet to see footage of your Skyhook in action.
Have any footage?

Screw footage. I saw the footage and I wasn't convienced until I did a test jump with RWS' skyhook cutaway rig. It felt like a damn tandem trap door it happened so fast. To say I was impressed would be a complete understatement.

I'm sure if you asked nice Mr. Booth might be able to point you in the right direction to use his cutaway rig.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skydiverek 63]

Quote

I have yet to see footage of your Skyhook in action.
Have any footage?

Bill showed some great footage during the PIA presentation i.e how Skyhook handles different malufunctions: slow mal, bag lock, total mal, normal spinning, spinning on your back (the tiny canopy was hooked-up backwards and spun rapidly before the cutaway, etc.). One clip showed a reserve being packed with six 180-degree twists in the lines, right under the freebag, and then being deployed with Skyhook. It really showes much more than the stills found on RWS website.

The rest of presentation included Powerpoint slide show on Skyhook, pilotchute construction, as well as footage of test jumps showing why a meshless reserve PC is better than the one using mesh, and a footage proving that a reserve bridle will NOT pull the freebag in case of horseshoe malfunction. The presentation ended with some hilarious bloopers of skydiving students. There was probably more in the presentation, but I don't remember now...

It would be so cool if Bill could put that whole CD that he had during the PIA on the RWS website (or at least the Skyhook portions)

• Quote

[pilotdave 0]

I asked Bill at the PIA if he'd upload some of those videos to my site. The skyhook videos definitely prove his point that the skyhook places the reserve where the main used to be, not into the relative wind. And some of those other videos (reserve bridle not extracting the reserve, secondary reserve PC causing problems, etc) were pretty educational. Hopefully he can find a way to get them out there.

Here's one skyhook equipped intentional cutaway, but it's not as good as Bill's videos: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1669.

Dave

[bob.dino 1]

If bandwidth or size is an issue, BitTorrent is a solution...