New jumper question.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

Hello. I am a new jumper with 21 jumps to date. On one of my jumps I found myself over some "industrial haze". Anyway while going through this "haze" I reached my pull altitude of 5,000 reached back grabbed my hackey and held on to it for about 3-4 seconds thinking. "I'm in this haze do I pull? Or wait till I'm out?" Finally I thought "I told everyone I was pulling at 5, so stick to the plan" And pulled only to open still inside the "haze". Since I was the last one on the aircraft I was not expecting anyone else to fall behind me. I finally made my way out of the haze to an uneventful landing. Now I know I made a mistake by even going out. I should of ridden the aircraft down if I were smart. The question is. Did I make the right choice to pull at my planned altitude, or should I of pulled above the haze or given myself to 3k or something for it to break. Let the flaming begin!

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[DSE 5]

What if the "haze" extended all the way to the ground?

If you planned on pulling at 5 and told those ahead of you that you'd pull at 5, then pull at 5. If you *suspect* that others will be in the "haze" with you prior to boarding the aircraft, its' a good idea that everyone decides to fly in one direction until you're out of the "haze."

[DougH 270]

how does one know that they are flying in the correct predetermined direction if they are in haze in and have no refrence point?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[labrys 0]

Unless it's high noon, the sun should be a guide. Even if it is, the direction of the jumprun should also be a guide. If you've gotten on the plane with no idea where the sun should be relative to your exit point and clueless about the direction of the jumprun and unable to orient yourself accordingly then you shouldn't be on the plane.

If it's so hazy that you can't even use the sun or the plane to guide you... you should have enjoyed the landing in the plane.

Owned by Remi #?

[brettski74 0]

If you're inside a cloud (let's call a spade a spade, shall we...) you won't be able to see the sun. You have no reference for direction.

While I've often heard the "Plan the dive and dive the plan" line with reference to the "Do I pull inside a cloud?" question, I generally hear it in North America, where jumping in clouds is not legal and not a regular occurrence. When I've jumped at places where cloud jumping is legal and there are rules for doing so, the general rule has been do not deploy inside a cloud unless you reach your hard-deck.

There are other considerations as well. You may want to discuss this topic further with your instructors.

[labrys 0]

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If you're inside a cloud (let's call a spade a spade, shall we...) you won't be able to see the sun.

Sorry, but that's just not true. I've never seen a cloud that was so dense it didn't allow light to penetrate it. It's not that difficult to see which direction the sun is, even from the middle of a cloud.

Owned by Remi #?

[Snowflake 0]

I always check the altitude of the bottom of the cloud deck on the climb to up.

[DSE 5]

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If you're inside a cloud (let's call a spade a spade, shall we...) you won't be able to see the sun. You have no reference for direction.

While I've often heard the "Plan the dive and dive the plan" line with reference to the "Do I pull inside a cloud?" question, I generally hear it in North America, where jumping in clouds is not legal and not a regular occurrence. When I've jumped at places where cloud jumping is legal and there are rules for doing so, the general rule has been do not deploy inside a cloud unless you reach your hard-deck.
.

Therein lies the point. Make a plan/rule/guideline and more importantly, discuss it. If the *plan* was to deploy at 5k, then that is what should happen. If the DZ has a policy of "if you are opening in a cloud, deploy at the minimum altitude for your license" then *that* is the plan.
If you're jumping in clouds where you cannot reference the direction of the sun, maybe it's not the best idea to be jumping in them? IMO, having a consistent load plan to fly to the east, west, north, or south in the event of a cloud deployment is a good plan.

[damion75 0]

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Sorry, but that's just not true. I've never seen a cloud that was so dense it didn't allow light to penetrate it. It's not that difficult to see which direction the sun is, even from the middle of a cloud.

Pop over to jolly old england and I'll show you some. You'll have to time it right though - we only have clouds like that for about 250 days a year...

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[shropshire 0]

Did you look out of the plane on the way to altitude?

At what altidude did the cloud layer start?

How thick was it?

How much coverage was there?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Fast 0]

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Did you look out of the plane on the way to altitude?

At what altidude did the cloud layer start?

How thick was it?

How much coverage was there?

That stuff changes and it can change fast. I have had my share of experience of such change to know not to trust where clouds are at in the sky.

Our general rule of thumb is to stay in one place (slow turn under canopy) till you come out of the bottom of it though for the most part it doesn't come into play because we do a pretty good job of staying out of the clouds.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[shropshire 0]

I agree, yes it can but one should be aware of the sky around them... I see loads of people taking no notice on the ride up.

There's no excuse for the "Green On ..... GO!" attituide

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,990]

>It's not that difficult to see which direction the sun is, even from the
>middle of a cloud.

I have often been in clouds where you could not tell sun direction, both while flying and while skydiving. A common occurrence is a high overcast with low scuddy clouds. In that case, there is no way to get a visual reference on where the sun is.

[shropshire 0]

As a paraglider pilot I occasionally get pulled into cloud. When I do, I first do a ground and bearing (compass) check and endevour to stay on the sun side of the cloud (better lift there anyway). You really dont need to be very deep into some clouds to loose sight of the sun.

Situational awareness is very important!! (understanment of the year).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[SPAWNmaster 0]

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>It's not that difficult to see which direction the sun is, even from the
>middle of a cloud.

I have often been in clouds where you could not tell sun direction, both while flying and while skydiving. A common occurrence is a high overcast with low scuddy clouds. In that case, there is no way to get a visual reference on where the sun is.

as a low time jumper with a few cloud experiences im going to agree with this. on 2 seperate occasions I have been in freefall in a cloud formation where you couldn't get a visual reference...its pretty disorienting but the important thing is to stay altitude aware and keep cool (and enjoy...clouds are mad fun).

I've been told that if im ever stuck in a cloud under canopy the best thing to do to avoid disorientation or canopy collision is to keep a steady turn till i come out the bottom. i've only had to do it once so far but its a great idea if you ask me.

[virgin-burner 1]

ask me about jump# 2, and i'll tell you about the scariest moment in my lifetime and a face-peeling..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Jazzthieve 0]

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If you're inside a cloud (let's call a spade a spade, shall we...) you won't be able to see the sun.

Sorry, but that's just not true. I've never seen a cloud that was so dense it didn't allow light to penetrate it. It's not that difficult to see which direction the sun is, even from the middle of a cloud.

You obviously have never been in a 3000 ft thick cloud, believe me you have no reference what so ever. Tell me, on a rainy day, when clouds are thick, can you still see the sun? I Bet you not. Here in Belgium it is legal to jump through clouds, the standard action when caught in a cloud would be to gently spiral downwards so you won't hit someone who's at the same level as you are by flying straight forward and basically have no idea what direction that is. It is however illegal to jump when the cloud base is lower then 3000ft.