MICHELANGELO 0 #1 March 30, 2008 I am conducting a study about the conflict between air traffic control and operations of skydiving as users of the air space. I would like to know if you know of a DZ located in the very proximity of a large airport, so I may contact them for further inquiry on their local problems at this respect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #2 March 30, 2008 Crosskeys and us, Skydive City Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #3 March 30, 2008 Read HERE for a listing of some recent conflicts reported from around the country. Updated January 31, 2008 by NASA.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #4 March 31, 2008 Skydive Long Island. Is on the approach to several large airports. JFK, LGA, ISP, Newark, BostonDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
asmund 0 #5 March 31, 2008 Skydive Las Vegas, located at Boulder City, NV, dropping jumpers through Class B airspace in proximity to arrival corridor/outer marker on Las Vegas McCarran RWY 25L/R. What I know, is its a smooth operation. ATC gives a "jump approved" when pilot calls out 2 minutes prior.I like subway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #6 March 31, 2008 Skydive Dallas has to work around DFW airport traffic. Just yesterday I was on a load there that could only get up to 9500 ft because air traffic control would not let us higher (presumably to keep the airspace above 10,000 open for airliners).The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #7 March 31, 2008 QuoteSkydive Dallas has to work around DFW airport traffic. Just yesterday I was on a load there that could only get up to 9500 ft because air traffic control would not let us higher (presumably to keep the airspace above 10,000 open for airliners). Has the DZ management discussed the matter with the management of the ATC facilities involved? Unless you are talking about stuff like Class B airspace, ATC does not have the authority to deny entry to the airspace. They have the authority to delay entry and sequence us in within the flow of traffic, but we have every bit as much right to be there as an airliner. I jump at Bay Area Skydiving, about 60 miles east of San Francisco. We are, depending on weather, in or near the traffic streams for San Francisco International, San Jose International, and Oakland International airports. We have, from time to time, had misunderstandings with ATC, usually the result of a controller overstepping his bounds. I know our DZO and DZM have spoken with the people who manage the facilities involved, and there has never been a question, at that level, of our right to use the airspace. Now, ATC delays might sometimes make it attractive to take the lower altitude. But that's OUR choice, not theirs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #8 March 31, 2008 good point, it is reiterated in the SIMS even under FAA Advisories - if you are in class E, (almost all of us are), then ATC cannot approve or deny a jump - and they are REQUIRED to give you traffic advisories. We have a letter of agreement with Tampa and JAX about how we will operate - once in a while they 'deny', and we occasionally have to remind them of the rules - we are in Class E, and do not require their permission. But we also appreciate the radar support we get from them, so it is a two-way street, we do not want to piss them off, so have to do a little give and take sometimes. They are not required to give us radar support and sometimes they are so busy they they drop us a little early, but they still offer the advisories, and that is a good thing to have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #9 March 31, 2008 Perhaps I was imprecise in my statement. Once we were aloft, the pilot said we were only going to 9500. When we were on the ground I asked if that was due to air traffic control and he said yes. The specific details of his conversation with ATC are not known to me. However, going back to the OP's question... there are air traffic issues related to DFW from time to time at this location. But let's be clear, usually there is no problem with getting altitude.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MICHELANGELO 0 #10 March 31, 2008 Very interesting report. Thanks a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MICHELANGELO 0 #11 March 31, 2008 QuoteRead HERE for a listing of some recent conflicts reported from around the country. Updated January 31, 2008 by NASA. The file was good, but your website is better. Thanks again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdatc 0 #12 April 1, 2008 Quote.... ATC cannot approve or deny a jump - and they are REQUIRED to give you traffic advisories. We have a letter of agreement with Tampa and JAX about how we will operate - once in a while they 'deny', and we occasionally have to remind them of the rules - we are in Class E, and do not require their permission. But we also appreciate the radar support we get from them, so it is a two-way street, we do not want to piss them off, so have to do a little give and take sometimes. They are not required to give us radar support and sometimes they are so busy they they drop us a little early, but they still offer the advisories, and that is a good thing to have. Here's a little more info, basically what you stated. http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atbarc/04-4.htm Quote*** 6. Are air traffic controllers required to separate jump aircraft that operate within a Class E airspace area? No. Traffic advisories shall be provided, but ATC is not required to separate visual flight rules aircraft within Class E airspace. However, in accordance with FAAO 7110.65, Air Traffic Control, paragraph 9-8-4, ATC may assist pilots of non-participating aircraft that request help in avoiding the jump airspace. In addition, if there is other traffic in the jump area, ATC does not authorize or deny jump operations due to traffic. The jump pilot shall be issued traffic advisories. The jump pilot and jumpers will make a decision on whether or not to allow the jumpers to leave the aircraft. 14 CFR, section 105.5, clearly places the burden on the jump pilot and parachutist by stating that no person may conduct a parachute operation and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from an aircraft, if that operation creates a hazard to air traffic or to persons or property on the ground. (ATO-R System Ops) Which goes back to this: QuoteSec. 105.5 General No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from an aircraft, if that operation creates a hazard to air traffic or to persons or property on the surface. If we are all responsible, it works out. This can't be emphasized enough. That said, I jump at a dropzone which frequently gets 'capped' by ATC... And being an air traffic controller, I understand. That said, if you want more freefall time, get a wingsuit. _justin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
