spiraling over the landing area

[billvon 3,006]

>A slower canopy may be slightly lower after they have spiraled, but
>the other canopy MAY have to come through 'cos they can't descend that
> slowly. Are you still so sure about the right of way?

Absolutely. It may indeed be rude (even dangerous) to descend below someone else then go back to a straight in approach, but once the larger canopy is lower, he has right of way. If a jumper on a more heavily loaded canopy cannot avoid the larger canopy - he has no business being on the more heavily loaded canopy.

>Everyone has a right to the sky, all it takes is a little planning of the exit order . . .

Exit order is chosen to reduce the odds of a freefall collision, not to 'space canopies out.' Which makes sense - getting cut off by a large canopy is annoying, getting hit under canopy by someone still in freefall is a heck of a lot worse.

>and pull heights . . .

This is often doable, especially if swoopers are planning their jump around their swoop. In other cases, other considerations (like low-timers pulling higher or bigways tracking to 2000 feet) are more important.

>then for everyone to be aware of everyone else.

I think this is the key.

[mjosparky 4]

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However, if you open then spiral your slow canopy below that of a faster canopy

Come on now, how often does someone jumping a large slow canopy "spiral" down below the the pocket rockets? The toggle or riser pressure alone keeps them from doing that.

If you can't avoid a canopy below and in front of you, you are the hazard not the slow canopy

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[base698 15]

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The toggle or riser pressure alone keeps them from doing that.

Riser pressure yes, but I've held a toggle spiral for 2000 ft or more on a massive canopy.

[justaman 0]

I found that on so a called big canopy that front riser and the out side line pulled into the chest (7 cell canopy) Is no big deal. Makes my feet feel like their going to come off but, they don't.

Do or do not

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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Come on now, how often does someone jumping a large slow canopy "spiral" down below the the pocket rockets? The toggle or riser pressure alone keeps them from doing that.

Sparky

Seriously? It happens all the time here at Raeford. "Big" is a relative term, though. The worst offender is a guy that spirals his Stilletto 135 down past guys under Velocity 90's and repeatedly lands right dead in the middle of our swoop lane. The second worse offenders are the entire group of military jumpers from a unit on Fort Bragg who spiral their blue and red Silhouettes down in front of us as we are setting up for final at 1000 feet under our Velos.

Chuck

[JeffSkydiver 0]

I know... my jump numbers are low, so feel free to disregard or slam me... but..

From watching lots and lots at the busy DZ that DeLand is, I see lots of swoopers at various levels doing one of two things... swooping/carving across the lawn in the close landing area by the peas, not particular about landing IN the peas, just going for the long horizontal ride AND

The other swoopers who swoop INTO the peas and stop there.

If the "lane" is set up, then it's still a mixed bag between those who use the lane, those who swoop anywhere in the surrounding grass and those who swoop into the peas. AND

Mixed in all that you have the non-swoopers doing the old fashioned, floating straight in approach. I very seldom see them going for the peas due to all the high speed landings randomly landing in and around the peas. The exception are the tandems, who float into the peas.

So, with all that going on, a busy DZ like Deland still has only one "peas."

I know, everyone wants to land close to the packing area etc. BUT

Can we not TRY, given there is enough room, to designate a swoopers' landing area, with peas and a lane and surrounding grass AND a second "peas" with enough lawn around for the straight in landings?

As far as landings go, the skydiving world has become divided between swoopers and floaters. Instead of trying to ignore this difference in the landing area and trying to make rules fit that may no longer be enough for everyone's safety, why don't we just recognize the two different disciplines and give each its own space.

Swoopers "line up" on final much different than non-swoopers. The swoopers' line up, as you know, begins several hundred feet nearly OVER the target and at some point they spiral in (45, 90, 180, 270 degrees or more). Their "final" is for all intents and purposes VERTICAL.

In contrast, the floaters line up and try to fly a "J" or "U" pattern from 1,000 feet and are taught to at about 300 feet of altitude fly straight in HORIZONTALLY on final. This puts them in the path of the swoopers' vertical "final"

We're mixing apples and oranges and trying to use one rule for both - the low guy has priority.

Let's hear it... Why not 2 landing areas?

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[mjosparky 4]

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Quote

Come on now, how often does someone jumping a large slow canopy "spiral" down below the the pocket rockets? The toggle or riser pressure alone keeps them from doing that.

Sparky

Seriously? It happens all the time here at Raeford. "Big" is a relative term, though. The worst offender is a guy that spirals his Stilletto 135 down past guys under Velocity 90's and repeatedly lands right dead in the middle of our swoop lane. The second worse offenders are the entire group of military jumpers from a unit on Fort Bragg who spiral their blue and red Silhouettes down in front of us as we are setting up for final at 1000 feet under our Velos.

Chuck

I am talking big canopies, 220 and bigger. You do not spiral for 2000 feet and don't pull the risers down to you chest. I jump a 245 Sharpchuter and if someone on a pocket rocket has trouble doing his 270 not in the pattern approach and swoop with me doing a straight in, I can think of three reason: He needs more practice, there is not enough room for him to be make that type of approach, or there is to much traffic for that type of approach.

This tread started with the problem of people spiraling down directly over the landing area. That is not the big slow canopy, it is the swooper. Why is the canopy that lands different than a pocket rocket landing wrong? Did you ever think that just maybe you were in my way? (rhetorical question)

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stratostar 5]

Likewise, HP pilots, don't sit on deep brakes trying to keep altitude against larger canopies then complain that they got in your way. (quote)

This is what I was talking about in the last post not the other stuff.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo