RW and FF?

[virulindex 0]

I'm youngish and new to skydiving and I've read a few people write that the younger crowd can be more attracted to freeflying than relative work. I'm still not sure though what the difference between the two is.

I thought I had an idea but I'm really not sure.

Does anyone know where there is a previous thread that sort of goes through the two and explains them clearly for a newb?

Just tryin to learn as much as I can!!

Thanks!

[SPAWNmaster 0]

basically:

relative work is flying relative to others during freefall. this includes formations, turning points, etc.

freeflying is flying other ways other than on your belly...so sitflying, kneeflying, backfly, head-down, atmonauti, etc.

[virulindex 0]

Well, that seems simple enough. And it all seems fun.

Thanks Spawn!

[darkwing 5]

I'd say it slightly differently. RW is generally used to mean on your belly, in groups. FF is any other body position, usually, but not necessarily in groups.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I'd say it slightly differently. RW is generally used to mean on your belly, in groups. FF is any other body position, usually, but not necessarily in groups.

more true, though RW can be noted as generally flying relative to each other in any orientation and we are moving towards that line of thinking.

OP - one thing to note. these are great disciplines to learn and you should learn to do both (there's also CrW, swooping, Wingsuits, boarding, etc etc etc) and they are all most satisfying when you can get decent at them. Though some people are just hacks and like to goof about and seem to have fun too - though I don't relate to that as easy. People that tend to only do one and belittle the others tend to just be lousy at one or both - I suspect they need to compensate for something they find lacking in the sport. (If you do skydiving right, it's a sport, not an ego validation activity).

Our DZ is great in that aspect - we have some decent talent in most all the areas, and we get a lot of enthusiastic crossover between various disciplines. It's a lot of fun that way and we all get to learn from each other.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jimmytavino 16]

whenever you fly in groups,,, and TWO jumpers
can count, as a 'group'...

you are flying 'relative' to one another....

this can be done either, 'flat',, as in the traditional skydiving body position. or in a sit, head down etc... I. E. free flying..
so while RW has usually meant 'formation skydiving'... freeflyers are still doing Relative work..... only in differing attitudes in relationship to the ground !!!!! hahaha

confused????....don't be... it's all good...

FF has grown tremendously, in the last 10 years....or so...
( anyone remember Carl and Roger doing what they called "freak flying"..... 20 years ago??? )

what a fine sport.... where nothing stagnates, and new and exciting disciplines, await those who enjoy a new challenge...

friendly " antagonism" can sometimes develop between the two choices and those who ascribe to one or the other...... but in truth
there is a great deal of sharing and welcoming between all of these enthusiasts.. and so our community grows...in both numbers and knowledge...

safety first,, and what the hell,,, safety second as well...

jmy

[jheadley 0]

I'm 22 and I'm a hardcore RW'er. I'm taking it back!

RW 4 Life

[AllisonH 0]

Quote

I'm 22 and I'm a hardcore RW'er. I'm taking it back!

RW 4 Life

Any chance you want to clone yourself and send a few copies to Michigan? We could use some more people like that!

[Andy_Copland 0]

I mix it up so i suck at both.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[shropshire 0]

Say it aint so?.... But it's all fun

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Broke 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm 22 and I'm a hardcore RW'er. I'm taking it back!

RW 4 Life

Any chance you want to clone yourself and send a few copies to Michigan? We could use some more people like that!

I love RW especially when it turns into combat RW

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[HillerMyLife 0]

Hopefully you get the point and really, it all boils down to what you think is fun. Another major difference is vertical speed, things happen much faster when freeflying because...well because YOU are going faster! Small changes to body position can have major effects/change drastically how fast you fall and what attitude your body is in especially in relation to everyone you are flying with.

Someday Never Comes

[Broke 0]

Quote

Hopefully you get the point and really, it all boils down to what you think is fun. Another major difference is vertical speed, things happen much faster when freeflying because...well because YOU are going faster! Small changes to body position can have major effects/change drastically how fast you fall and what attitude your body is in especially in relation to everyone you are flying with.

I have also noticed that DZs that have friendlier belly jumpers seem to have more RW going on than DZs where people do a lot of solos

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[HillerMyLife 0]

Not sure what you mean by that but DZs that have friendlier jumpers(regardless of discipline) generally have more jumpers going to the DZ that those that don't.

People usually end up doing the things that they're friends are doing, which is probably a pretty good barometer for how most of us chose which way we fly.

Someday Never Comes

[Broke 0]

Here is what I mean... If you can't find someone to jump with you can still practice your sit, stand, HD, but if you are a belly flier you can't really work on your skills without someone to to fly in referance to. You dig what I'm saying?

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[HillerMyLife 0]

Actually I think flying with someone as a reference point is the only way to work on your skills regardless of body position.

Someday Never Comes

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

If you can't find someone to jump with you can still practice your sit, stand, HD, but if you are a belly flier you can't really work on your skills without someone to to fly in referance to. You dig what I'm saying?

I have to respectfully disagree here.

Yes, if you're stuck flying solo, you can work on a sit, stand, HD, ect, but that only works until you're "stable" in that position. As soon as you can maintain stability, there are a very limited number of things you can do without a reference point, just as in RW. Basically, you can bring your FF skills up to about the point your belly skills were when you graduated AFF... whoopee! Maybe not even that far, since at least during AFF you should have had a non-moving reference.

Furthermore, an incredibly large majority of belly fliers could use a LOT of work on their body position, some of which could be done on solos. Anyone who's ever spent 3 hours of tunnel time purging the box-man flying style from their brain and trying to learn mantis knows this.

In either case, solo's aren't going to get you very far... you really need a reference. And a reference that isn't drifting all over the place themselves, at that!

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Actually I think flying with someone as a reference point is the only way to work on your skills regardless of body position.

Damn straight.

One thing above was a reference to the higher speeds making one more dynamic.....generally true, but there are ways to make your self faster and more dynamic on your belly also. But that's a whole new level in RW. ditto for FF - you can be a hack, or you can really choose to take it up to the next level in an equivalent way - there are both types in all the disciplines.

The only real point is that you can find a significant challenge and a TON of fun in any discipline, so when you are new, I wouldn't shut out any of them. And, frankly, once you play with them, you start finding a lot more similarities than differences - it's all about directing the airflow somehow to make you fly like you want.



Unless your locals in one or the other are jerks.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

Anyone who's ever spent 3 hours of tunnel time purging the box-man flying style from their brain and trying to learn mantis knows this.

Just thought I'd throw a wrench in here. At a big way event at Perris last month none other than Dan BC (who has a bit more RW experience than you and me combined) chastised some of the jumpers for flying "mantis". He made the point quite forcefully that the requirements for big ways are NOT the same as for 4-way, and mantis is NOT the best style for big way flying.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

• Quote

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

At a big way event at Perris last month none other than Dan BC (who has a bit more RW experience than you and me combined) chastised some of the jumpers for flying "mantis". He made the point quite forcefully that the requirements for big ways are NOT the same as for 4-way, and mantis is NOT the best style for big way flying.

Really? That's very interesting actually! Would you mind sharing what his advice was on the best body postion for big way, and why mantis is not recommended? Also, did he give a rough size at which this starts to apply? 20 people? 50? 100? I find it works very well in the 20-way-ish size, but haven't been involved in anything bigger than that so I can't talk from experience.

Any info is appreciated.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[kallend 2,026]

Quote

Quote

At a big way event at Perris last month none other than Dan BC (who has a bit more RW experience than you and me combined) chastised some of the jumpers for flying "mantis". He made the point quite forcefully that the requirements for big ways are NOT the same as for 4-way, and mantis is NOT the best style for big way flying.

Really? That's very interesting actually! Would you mind sharing what his advice was on the best body postion for big way, and why mantis is not recommended?

Arms wider, elbows higher. Reason - you're not optimizing body position for making fast turns and transitions. It was all part of a debrief after a jump, not a seminar on RW technique, so there wasn't a lot of explanation.

Quote

Also, did he give a rough size at which this starts to apply? 20 people? 50? 100? I find it works very well in the 20-way-ish size, but haven't been involved in anything bigger than that so I can't talk from experience.

Any info is appreciated.

The jumps were in the 85-95 way range. No other information, sorry.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[docjohn 0]

RW is belly flying. Its the way God meant for you to skydive.

So if some dark figure tries to entice you to try freeflying, run away! Even if they temp you with candy.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[ladydyver 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm 22 and I'm a hardcore RW'er. I'm taking it back!

RW 4 Life

Any chance you want to clone yourself and send a few copies to Michigan? We could use some more people like that!

I had some very experienced free fliers that until I had a 100 jumps on my belly that I shouldn't even consider free flying - took it to heart as I respect them and have strictly been a belly flier. I love RW....but wouldn't mind learning to free fly - it will be an entertaining season anyway

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[JohnDeere 0]

Freeflying is only for people with to much talent to use it all in just RW

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I had some very experienced free fliers that until I had a 100 jumps on my belly that I shouldn't even consider free flying - took it to heart as I respect them and have strictly been a belly flier. I love RW....but wouldn't mind learning to free fly - it will be an entertaining season anyway

Pretty much anything fun you do in skydiving is going to involve RW. Just the body position, suits, and fall rates will differ. Some people even do it with wing suits or open parachutes.

Doing it competitively is challenging regardless of the body position, but the bar is a lot higher for recreational VRW.

I didn't build my first successful 4-way vertical round (2 head-up, 2 head down) until I had about a thousand jumps. The other three jumpers all had at least 500 jumps each.

With belly-position RW nearly any group of skydivers with compatible clothing can successfully build formations. It's the greatest common denominator and provides more immediate gratification.