This looks terrible...

[Andy_Copland 0]

Thats my point

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[piisfish 140]

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i've got slightly more than half a brain, so it appears obvious to me

thus requiring you to view a video to inform you of the potential dangers

1st point : that's YOUR opinion (not a personal attack, but it was so easy... )

2nd point : never seen a video elsewhere than in the US... Make your own deductions

Yeah right, they apparently DID need to see a video or get things explained CLEARLY.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[flyangel2 2]

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Sorry if i interpreted you wrong here but it sounds like your saying that just because his parents where not educated about skydiving that they thought it was perfectly safe?

My mother wont ever come see me jump because of the danger, and she knows jack

Jump happened in a different county. Who knows how they think there. You would be shocked to see what some parents here in America allow their children to do. I'm still thinking the parents were uneducated about the situation.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[artistcalledian 0]

I'll shut up

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drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[ladyskydiver 0]

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i've never been told to not put my hand in a fire, but i've got slightly more than half a brain, so it appears obvious to me not to

just how stupid do you have to be as a none skydiver to have no idea if its safe or not to push your 11 year old out of a plane ... thus requiring you to view a video to inform you of the potential dangers

If you're so stupid to need a video to tell you if its dangerous not, how do you manage to walk upright?

hmmm...a skydiver has tossed themselves out of an airplane and survived. I mean...yesh...throwing yourself out of an airplane doing 120+ mph relying on some string and nylon to save your ass....wow! How "stupid" does one need to be? I'm sure the parents thought "My child will be fine. I've seen "x" number of people (or "so and so") jump and they've all been fine." So...why would someone else think automatically that there will be death?

Plus, as Mary has pointed out, parents sometimes give in to their kids. Mullins kids started jumping at a young age - and are still here and have a ton of jumps. So you see...not every situation where a young kid starts out will turn bad. Showing the video of the kid going in is just like watching Bill Booth's video at the beginning and signing the waivers a bazillion times saying you could die. Yeah...you could. Do people automatically think that they could die? Not really...they all hope that it's never them and do the best they can to ensure that it isn't them.

I'm sure the parents trusted the people teaching their child and now have to live the rest of their lives with the knowledge that if they had said "No" maybe their child would still be alive today. And I say maybe because there is no guarantee that something else wouldn't have taken the child in the meantime.

Also, what thought processes happen in the US doesn't necessarily apply to another country. Take your plain and simple commercial - in some countries showing nudity is no big deal...show the same commercial in the US and OMG!!! You've just commited one of the biggest offenses possible.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[artistcalledian 0]

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Also, what thought processes happen in the US doesn't necessarily apply to another country

true us brits use the "C" word all the time, nothing too offensive, but i was told by an American friend that if we used that word in the States, all hell would break loose

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[ladyskydiver 0]

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Also, what thought processes happen in the US doesn't necessarily apply to another country

true us brits use the "C" word all the time, nothing too offensive, but i was told by an American friend that if we used that word in the States, all hell would break loose

Yeah...use that word over here and you're likely to find yourself knocked into tomorrow.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[billvon 3,064]

>Its horrible, words cant describe what its like to tell someone that,
>let alone be in there position.

Yes. I've watched friends of mine die, and it's a horrible experience. A suprising number of skydivers today, though, do not understand that such things can even happen. They enter the sport via tandem, where they sign a waiver but are then told "just arch and you'll be fine." Then they go through AFF, where they are told they have to perform, but there's two jumpmasters, an RSL and an AAD there if you screw up. And the school's safety record (they are told) is perfect.

So they get to the 100 jump level without seeing so much as a serious injury. They watch people bounce off the sod when they turn too low and break their legs; a broken femur is the worst thing they see. Sure, they _say_ that they understand that they can die, but they don't have a gut level understanding of that.

Then one day they see someone go in, and their world falls apart. Some people actually quit skydiving at this point, because they have realized that they can really, actually die. Others come to accept the risk and realize they are OK with it.

Now, it's good that people decide on their own if they want to risk death in this sport. But it's bad that we seem to have more and more people who don't even think about the issue until they see someone go in.

>I dont see how it is a training tool.

Not a training tool, more like a way to get people to think about that _before_ they see it in person. They should be thinking about it anyway, but for some people, it takes seeing it to believe it.

Look at it this way - had the parents of that child seen this video first, they may well have decided not to let him jump - and he would be alive today. Or perhaps they would have let him jump anyway - but at least they made the decision knowing what could happen.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Now, it's good that people decide on their own if they want to risk death in this sport. But it's bad that we seem to have more and more people who don't even think about the issue until they see someone go in.

Thinking about it is never going to be the same as the actual experience. The first is going to be more rational thought. The experience is going to be much more emotional.

Last year as I finished training I went through a ridiculous stretch of just missing accidents. I finished some AFF jumps at Perris and drove off around noon - that afternoon a gal hooked in. The following month I was having some beers watching the mass sunset load at the American Boogie and then drove home. Couple hours later someone rolled a full SUV. I was landing at the Barn two months after that and saw a helicoptor heading off from the main landing area on a bad canal swoop.

All were direct reminders of what's what, but are hardly the same as seeing it happen. I'm not going to knock someone who decides that seeing that isn't worth it, say they never thought about it before.

[Waldschrat 0]

The Link is down.....is there another?

[IanHarrop 42]

http://www.dumpalink.com/post/1126724592

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Waldschrat 0]

poor Boy - gut das die Eltern im Knast sind

Thx because this Webspace is to slow.......here a new upload.

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0QI43ZAPAYPR62LHIXF3R616D9

[UntamedDOG 0]

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here a new upload.

Cool! Thanks.

It even lets you save it to your computer. Neat!

[Witelli 0]

It all boils down to this whether we like it or not. What is the law in that country? Morals are personal to some extent as well as government driven. Governments fuck up our mind. Example, I'd feel comfortable driving after 5 or 6 beers, and I guarantee you that I'm more safe than that old timer who just parked in the handicapped space that takes 10 minutes to get out of the car with their glazed glaucoma eyes and two canes. My reaction time would be 100 times better. But since our government doesn't care about old people (probably for social security reasons) and they just like putting regular people away (probably to make money in legal fees), we have no choice. Our morals are overridden. Most people tend to follow the law, that being said, if the kid was 11 years old and it was legal for him to do that jump, the parents were brainwashed and should not be locked up. However, in my opinion, I hope the parents are suffering dearly for not being smart enough to realize the risks. A tandem might have been a better choice.

[pash 0]

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Example, I'd feel comfortable driving after 5 or 6 beers, and I guarantee you that I'm more safe than that old timer who just parked in the handicapped space that takes 10 minutes to get out of the car with their glazed glaucoma eyes and two canes.

While I agree that this probably does hold true for you, be careful. Do not be complacent - it isn't always reaction time that counts - it is judgement. I realize, however, you are probably making a harmless analogy.

jason

[kallend 2,106]

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It all boils down to this whether we like it or not. What is the law in that country? Morals are personal to some extent as well as government driven. Governments fuck up our mind. Example, I'd feel comfortable driving after 5 or 6 beers, and I guarantee you that I'm more safe than that old timer who just parked in the handicapped space that takes 10 minutes to get out of the car with their glazed glaucoma eyes and two canes. .

I think you are a statistic waiting to happen.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ladyskydiver 0]

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However, in my opinion, I hope the parents are suffering dearly for not being smart enough to realize the risks. A tandem might have been a better choice.

You must not have a child. The parents are suffering and will for the rest of their lives. No parent ever feels they should outlive their child, and if the child dies by no fault of their own, they live with guilt that maybe they could have done something different to change the outcome - even if there was nothing they could do. If it is a situation that was somehow brought about by them not saying "no" or "how about this instead..." they will feel more torment than you or anyone on the face of this planet can even comprehend. So, yes, the parents are in torment and will kick themselves for the rest of their lives that they didn't say no or how about a tandem instead or how about waiting until you're 18 or ______.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[Witelli 0]

I never said I would drive, just making a point that government puts limits on things I guess to keep us safe. So we obey them mostly because we don't want to get punished. .05 is the legal alcohol limit. However if the government made it .2, people would drive up to that limit. Because the individual thinks it's safe, NO, because the government says it's OK. If it's OK to let 11 year olds do solo skydives according to law, people are more likely to push their natural feelings aside and go with the flow.

By the way, aren't we all just statistics waiting to happen?

[inzite 0]

About two years ago we were sitting around the DZ between loads (cessna DZ). I'd just finished static line jump number three, and we were sitting in the manifest trailer at Williston watching RealTV (DZO, S&TO, myself, assorted jumpers, and two booked-on-the-next-load tandem students). This video comes on.

Here's what I remember for sure from the video:

The jump took place in Columbia. The jumper was somewhere in the 11-13 year old range. At least one parent was a professional skydiver. Mom and dad wanted their son to become the youngest every skydiver in Columbia.

Son went through (extensive?) ground training (they actually showed him doing practice jumps from the door of what looked like a cessna, all geared up. The gear he was using was DISGUSTING. I haven't been in the sport for long enough to know exactly what he was using, but it had a chest mounted reserve and back mounted main. It was probably from the 70s, and closely resembled the round equipment we use here for 300' static line jumps (old, round Soviet military rigs).

RealTV said that the boy was supposed to be doing a short delay (5-10 seconds?), and he was being put out low (3000 feet?). Don't recall them mentioning the use of an AAD. If he had one, it no doubt would have been mechanical (no cypress). He was not jumping static line or IAD, and was jumping solo.

Obviously from the video, he never deployed. He was found soon after impact and was still alive, but died at the hospital. The video was released at his parents' request to prevent similar mistakes.

When we saw this on RealTV, it was aired on regular over the air channels around 2pm. We were all quite stunned at the DZ that something like that would be broadcast. It also gave the two tandem students quite a shake, but they both went up to do their jumps.

A reminder that improper training in this sport kills. IMO, not even the equipment or the age of the jumper contributed to this death, so much as the fact that this student was being put out on a short delay freefall using unreliable gear with absolutely no prior skydiving experience. There's a reason static line, IAD, and AFF exist.

[Witelli 0]

I'm sorry, now that I reread my post, that was a bit harsh. And yes, I have 3 kids (11, 5,3) which is probably what promped me to be a bit uneasy with a parents decision to allow this. I'm very protective of my babies and couldn't fathom allowing my 11 year old to do this. Let me rephrase my initial post. If the 11 year old snuck out of the house and went skydiving without parents permission, I feel terrible for the parents. If the parents signed waivers to specifically put their child in harms way, I would not feel bad for them. I think that sounds better.

[inzite 0]

Whoops. Probably shouldn't say "unreliable gear". I'm sure the gear was sufficiently reliable. But it's still outdated, and nothing I'd want to do a first jump on.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Yes, this post is a lot easier to see what you mean. Thank you for clarifying it.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[UntamedDOG 0]

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He was found soon after impact and was still alive, but died at the hospital.

Are you sure about this? Still alive after a terminal impact?

That is impossible.

[inzite 0]

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Are you sure about this? Still alive after a terminal impact?

That is impossible.

Sure? Well, that's what they said on RealTV, so it must be true

We were all sitting in manifest slightly stunned they'd aired video of someone going in. Right after impact, our DZO stated that he must have survived if they'd shown the video on RealTV. At about this moment the show displayed two anchors sitting behind the RealTV news desk, and they informed the audience that the boy survived impact, and we all sighed in relief. The anchor then continued to add that he died soon afterwards at the hospital, and we returned to our stunned "wow, they actually aired that on TV" state.

Of course, this is RealTV we're talking about. I wouldn't even begin to claim that what they quoted is 100% what really happened.

[diverdriver 6]

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He was found soon after impact and was still alive, but died at the hospital.

Are you sure about this? Still alive after a terminal impact?

That is impossible.

No it's not. Depends on how they hit and what they hit. And people have survived terminal impacts before. Rare cases but it does happen. Never say impossible.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125