Reserve 1st?

[northcave 0]

Ok this is a hypothetical situation so no need to say something derogatory.

If for example you were at only 1000ft and the plane was in trouble. And you had to get out. Would you and could you go straight for your reserve?

Surely it would open quicker and more reliably that your main. Is there a problem with doing this whilst your main is still tucked away?

[rushmc 23]

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Ok this is a hypothetical situation so no need to say something derogatory.

If for example you were at only 1000ft and the plane was in trouble. And you had to get out. Would you and could you go straight for your reserve?

Surely it would open quicker and more reliably that your main. Is there a problem with doing this whilst your main is still tucked away?

For me? yes. I have talked to the pilots of my jump planes. I have asked them at what minimum altitlude would they ask me to get out. They told me 1000 feet. I have decided that at that altitude my reserve would be my first choice. My Sabre2 does not like non terminal openings and it can take 1500 feet ot open sometimes so, unles I am over 2000 feet I go for silver. And I do watch my alti to 2500 feet

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Stuntbabex 0]

Since I get 1100 ft openings with my main, I think my reserve would be a good choice at 1000.

[SivaGanesha 2]

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My Sabre2 does not like non terminal openings and it can take 1500 feet ot open sometimes so, unles I am over 2000 feet I go for silver. And I do watch my alti to 2500 feet

If it takes 1500 feet to open shouldn't the threshold for using the reserve be a bit higher than 2000? That doesn't allow a lot of room for error.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Andrewwhyte 1]

If you are wearing an AAD opening your main at that altitude would be a bit hazardous.

[rushmc 23]

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My Sabre2 does not like non terminal openings and it can take 1500 feet ot open sometimes so, unles I am over 2000 feet I go for silver. And I do watch my alti to 2500 feet

If it takes 1500 feet to open shouldn't the threshold for using the reserve be a bit higher than 2000? That doesn't allow a lot of room for error.

True, I listed the extreem range for making the point

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jimmytavino 16]

at 1000 feet...yes you could
and yes I would... as long as your main remains untouched...

but remember to concentrate strongly on your exit body position,
no need ( or time ) to be flailing , or tumbling an exit...we would want to deploy that spring loaded pilot chute, cleanly off our back and in a body position which limits the chance of creating a burble on our back...

i'd wanna try for head high, facing Uphill and into the prop( s ) right out the door, and getting flat as the silver is pulled...as opposed to say, a diving exit....

prepare for a PLF, if:

you have an OUT landing, your reserve is smaller than your main
and you have the added 'suspended weight' of your main, still in the container...

let's hope that any unfortunate aircraft emergencies, if they must occur, occur at well above 1,000 feet.....

jt

[faulknerwn 38]

You do know that Cypreses don't even arm themselves until 1500 feet right?

If the airplane only got to 1000 feet, your Cypres will not fire.

[arai 0]

an aircraft emergency could easily eat up five hundred feet. the aircraft could get to 1500 and be back down to 1000 before you get your ass out. I wouldnt take that chance that low to the ground for a 2 out, or for a snivel for that matter.

[DougH 270]

I say silver, but we all know how hard it is to fight muscle memory.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Ok this is a hypothetical situation so no need to say something derogatory.

If for example you were at only 1000ft and the plane was in trouble. And you had to get out. Would you and could you go straight for your reserve?

Sure.

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Surely it would open quicker and more reliably that your main. Is there a problem with doing this whilst your main is still tucked away?

No. The gear is tested in both configurations.

[rushmc 23]

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I say silver, but we all know how hard it is to fight muscle memory.

this is an excelent point. That is why I watch my alti untill 2500 and I think silver until that point. It is something I do every ride up.

Could be said I am paraniod but I feel that if I make this a practice it will be no different than pulling handled in free fall.

Again, great point

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mark 107]

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You do know that Cypreses don't even arm themselves until 1500 feet right?

If the airplane only got to 1000 feet, your Cypres will not fire.

On the other hand, some other AADs will. Vigil, for example.

Mark

[kschilk 0]

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My Sabre2 does not like non terminal openings and it can take 1500 feet ot open sometimes so, unles I am over 2000 feet I go for silver. And I do watch my alti to 2500 feet

If it takes 1500 feet to open shouldn't the threshold for using the reserve be a bit higher than 2000? That doesn't allow a lot of room for error.

If it snivels that badly, I'd consider a bigger pilot chute.

"T'was ever thus."

[docjohn 0]

0 to 499 - stay with the plane
500 to 999 - jump and dump reserve
1000 + jump and dump main

but that's me

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[rushmc 23]

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My Sabre2 does not like non terminal openings and it can take 1500 feet ot open sometimes so, unles I am over 2000 feet I go for silver. And I do watch my alti to 2500 feet

If it takes 1500 feet to open shouldn't the threshold for using the reserve be a bit higher than 2000? That doesn't allow a lot of room for error.

If it snivels that badly, I'd consider a bigger pilot chute.

I am not so sure it is the pilot chute as the way the main acts. But one needs to know that this has happened at high altitude and I have not tried this as a low altitude hop n pop.


Maybe the bigger point is one should have a good feel for how thier own gear reacts so they can make a decision as to what is an aceptable alitiude to deply the main VS the reserve in an emergency situation.

For me, 2000 feet is the absolute lowest I would try my main. After looking at this thread I think I may move that up to 2500 in a sub terminal situation

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[bodypilot1 0]

At 25 jumps you should already know this. If not, I suggest not boarding an aircraft intil you do. Your life depends on it.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[northcave 0]

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At 25 jumps you should already know this. If not, I suggest not boarding an aircraft intil you do. Your life depends on it.

If this forum wasn't here to discuss questions that they either didn't teach you at the dz or you're not at the dz to ask them, what exactly is the point of this forum?

With your experience i think you should know that not every dz is different and not every instructor has the same knowledge. I've been taught stuff at different Dz's that directly contradicts each other.

Thanks to everyone else for the advice.

[popsjumper 2]

Section 4, Category F-2(b)
DZ/school policy.

Category F Quiz Questions 20 and 21.

The idea previously stated about knowing your gear is a good one.

Me?
2K borderline on main with considerations:
1. Airspeed. The more speed, the more forward throw, the less altitude loss on opening. Quicker on the cutaway if opening problems (I'm not going to spend much time on analyzing the main).
(Consider a jet jump vs a helicopter jump)
2. Otherwise, reserve.

1K? Reserve - it's in my mental "no brainer" file.
YMMV

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jsaxton 0]

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At 25 jumps you should already know this. If not, I suggest not boarding an aircraft intil you do. Your life depends on it.

EXACTLY! This should have been covered in the First Jump Course before you ever got on an airplane.

[airtwardo 7]

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I say silver, but we all know how hard it is to fight muscle memory.

this is an excellent point. That is why I watch my alti until 2500 and I think silver until that point. It is something I do every ride up.

Could be said I am paranoid but I feel that if I make this a practice it will be no different than pulling handled in free fall.

Again, great point

Just to throw this in...

If an in flight emergency happens, as is being suggested here you should already have in your mind exactly what you will do.

Similar to your free-fall EP's, you need a prethought out plan for all possible scenarios, as it is in free-fall... time is essential.

I was a fledgling 100 jump wonder on a Beech load when the rubber band broke at about a grand, the jumper dumper screamed back at us to exit immediately...I believe the phrase he used was "everybody get the fuck out"

Since I was in the base I was closest to the door, I got up looked out and thought ... L O W !

First to the door....third one out going through 900 feet!
Two little guys squirted out past me faster than shit through a goose.

I was on conventional gear (reserve in the front) using a borrowed Jerry Bird ripcord-less reserve...

26' navy opened horizontally and I was in the saddle by 700, watching the last couple of guys to leave, dive out get stable and go for their mains....
one saying he popped his brakes around 300 feet.

Since jumping was over for the day we all sat around and had a lengthy 5-6 hour 'safety meeting' discussing the events of the day...

To a man, none of us had a plan in mind when the situation happened.

As a noob, I guess I was almost 'waiting for further orders' because to this day I distinctly recall thinking
'IS this too low to exit' and 'main or reserve',
since I had no experience on this type of belly-wart there was a no shit confidence concern.

The jumper leaving in front of me basically curled up fetal rolling forward out the door, and already had arm extension, silver in hand as his feet left the door-jam.

'When in doubt whip it out' and I pretty much did the same thing.

We ALL would have done things differently after talking it through...we got lucky I guess.

My hesitation and lack of a predetermined course of action could have easily cost lives.

It's a lesson hammered home, that since that day, has made me a much more aware and safer plane rider.

Until jump run, I'm constantly going through in my mind what I would do 'if'...

Remember, the options change during the flight.

Where and what and how I would pull, where I would land, which way would I be facing in case of an off site landing....etc.

This stuff is good to talk about...you all know your gear and your capabilities, go with what ya know...but do have the plan already in your hard drive and don't try to analyze and adjust when fractions of a second may matter.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[rushmc 23]

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I say silver, but we all know how hard it is to fight muscle memory.

this is an excellent point. That is why I watch my alti until 2500 and I think silver until that point. It is something I do every ride up.

Could be said I am paranoid but I feel that if I make this a practice it will be no different than pulling handled in free fall.

Again, great point

Just to throw this in...

If an in flight emergency happens, as is being suggested here you should already have in your mind exactly what you will do.

Similar to your free-fall EP's, you need a prethought out plan for all possible scenarios, as it is in free-fall... time is essential.

I was a fledgling 100 jump wonder on a Beech load when the rubber band broke at about a grand, the jumper dumper screamed back at us to exit immediately...I believe the phrase he used was "everybody get the fuck out"

Since I was in the base I was closest to the door, I got up looked out and thought ... L O W !

First to the door....third one out going through 900 feet!
Two little guys squirted out past me faster than shit through a goose.

I was on conventional gear (reserve in the front) using a borrowed Jerry Bird ripcord-less reserve...

26' navy opened horizontally and I was in the saddle by 700, watching the last couple of guys to leave, dive out get stable and go for their mains....
one saying he popped his brakes around 300 feet.

Since jumping was over for the day we all sat around and had a lengthy 5-6 hour 'safety meeting' discussing the events of the day...

To a man, none of us had a plan in mind when the situation happened.

As a noob, I guess I was almost 'waiting for further orders' because to this day I distinctly recall thinking
'IS this too low to exit' and 'main or reserve',
since I had no experience on this type of belly-wart there was a no shit confidence concern.

The jumper leaving in front of me basically curled up fetal rolling forward out the door, and already had arm extension, silver in hand as his feet left the door-jam.

'When in doubt whip it out' and I pretty much did the same thing.

We ALL would have done things differently after talking it through...we got lucky I guess.

My hesitation and lack of a predetermined course of action could have easily cost lives.

It's a lesson hammered home, that since that day, has made me a much more aware and safer plane rider.

Until jump run, I'm constantly going through in my mind what I would do 'if'...

Remember, the options change during the flight.

Where and what and how I would pull, where I would land, which way would I be facing in case of an off site landing....etc.

This stuff is good to talk about...you all know your gear and your capabilities, go with what ya know...but do have the plan already in your hard drive and don't try to analyze and adjust when fractions of a second may matter.

Well stated!! All of it and I want to add to your "you need to know what you will do before you need to do it" idea.

I have made up my mind the 2400' (now) or lower I go straight for the reserve. I make it a point to watch my alti until the "decision" altitude is reached. At that point I mentally go through the standard EP's, do a quick self gear and handle check, look over my jump mates gear as best I can (again) and then and only then I relax for a bit and go through the jump in my mind.

Nice post, Thank You

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[councilman24 37]

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At 25 jumps you should already know this. If not, I suggest not boarding an aircraft intil you do. Your life depends on it.

If this forum wasn't here to discuss questions that they either didn't teach you at the dz or you're not at the dz to ask them, what exactly is the point of this forum?

With your experience i think you should know that not every dz is different and not every instructor has the same knowledge. I've been taught stuff at different Dz's that directly contradicts each other.

Thanks to everyone else for the advice.

THIS WAS the best advice you received. You SHOULD have had an answer already. It was part of our and should have been part of your first jump course. The altitudes change as your gear changes, and asking what your altitude should be with particular gear is 'normal'. But asking if you CAN open your reserve first means either your training was lacking or your understanding of it was lacking. Just as first jump students have parachute malfunctions they may have an aircraft malfunction.

What were you trained for a total malfunction? Surely at some point you were trained to open your reserve without your main being opened first.

For static line jumpmastering in an emergency we would put the first student out on the S/L if it was hooked up. We hooked it up on the ground. The next students would either be hooked up or put out on their reserves depending on time. And they were taught this in the first jump course.

Yes, dropzones vary in procedures. Sometimes both are right and it's a matter of choice. Sometimes some are more right than others. And sometimes students get information from non-instructors who think they know the right answer but don't. And sometimes instructors have crazy ideas of their own.

IF you truly didn't know you couldn't open your reserve first, and you didn't know there was an altitude at which you should use your reserve first, then then there was either an error in learning or teaching.

BTW, DON'T cutaway first in this situation. Your reserve may malfunction and your main may be you last good parachute, as long as it's still attached.

Yes I'm the crusty cirmudgeon today.

As someone other than me once said, "Keep fighting until the blood fills your goggles."

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[SivaGanesha 2]

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THIS WAS the best advice you received. You SHOULD have had an answer already. It was part of our and should have been part of your first jump course. The altitudes change as your gear changes, and asking what your altitude should be with particular gear is 'normal'. But asking if you CAN open your reserve first means either your training was lacking or your understanding of it was lacking. Just as first jump students have parachute malfunctions they may have an aircraft malfunction.

According to the Skydiver Information Manual, 2007 edition (sorry I don't have the 2008 edition yet), page 33, the instructor is supposed to instruct the student as to procedures for when to land with the plane, when to exit and deploy the reserve, when to exit and deploy the main, and when to proceed with the jump normally. SIM doesn't cite precise altitudes so presumably there is some room for discretion based on the instructor, the DZO, and the gear.

I was told below 1000, we land with the aircraft; at or above 1000 but below 2500, exit and deploy the reserve; at or above 2500, exit and deploy the main.

But since it seems to vary somewhat based on gear, and the original poster has his own gear, the hard deck numbers may have changed since his FJC. The original poster needs to make inquiries on this if he isn't sure. And, of course, SIM doesn't directly apply since he is based in Britain.

However, it also says, in SIM, several times elsewhere--on page 31--that you must deploy your reserve by 1000 in the event of a malfunction. Given that a malfunction would be a possiblity in case of an aircraft emergency, it seems, therefore, that if you are as low as 1000 when you exit--and you nevertheless exit rather than landing with the aircraft--you are going to go for the reserve immediately. As far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be much room for discretion as regards the original poster's specific question. It is clear in that case you go straight for the reserve ripcord.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[firstime 0]

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You do know that Cypreses don't even arm themselves until 1500 feet right?

If the airplane only got to 1000 feet, your Cypres will not fire.

Good point of info Wendy