40 jumps and jumping an elliptical

[FrenchyDiver 0]

I still jump my BT-60 on occasion, it is a sweet canopy that can be forgiving at light WL and flown conservatively.

From all the posts above, your friend seems to be in good hands and will enjoy the ride.

Last but not the least, it is always good to hear that people care about their friends, like you do.

Be safe & be well.

JM

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[jumpwally 0]

Gee,,the only thing not on your friends list is landing a Birdman Suit,,geezz. Caution......

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[flyangel2 2]

I'm with Ron on this, I know Winsor and would trust him with my boys.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Ron 10]

Quote

I'm with Ron on this, I know Winsor and would trust him with my boys.

Just not around explosives...Don't ask

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[flyangel2 2]

Oh, do tell!

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Ron 10]

Quote

Oh, do tell!

Sorry can't. Not my story, so I can't.

Lets just say that he is one of the few people that amaze me EVERY time I talk to him.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[katzurki 0]

You know, I jumped a genuinely elliptical canopy at #5th jump.

That Stealth tandem was sure elliptical enough.

[tbrown 26]

I'm not so concerned about any one particular issue as that there are so many of them all at once. Your friend could find she's "bit off more than she can chew". The opinions expressed here that the canopy's okay, the dropzone is bigger or easier to land on, and sitflying is something she can learn are all valid enough. And we all need to push our envelopes to keep learning. But shouldn't we push the envelope one crner at a time ?

She can still get a bad spot or have to cutaway and land off the DZ, does she know where the safe outs are ? Is it really a good idea to try learning a new canopy AND sitflying on the same jump, especially for a novice who's just had a month off ? How much new information can anyone, let alone a newbie, be expected to retain on one jump ? She'll be falling faster if she's sitting, have less freefall time before she needs to open, have to be more careful about a stable body position when she opens, and then there's the flight and landing characteristics of a different type of canopy design. At a different DZ with different landmarks, outs & hazards.

Doesn't seem like she couldn't get this over the course of a couple weekends, or even over one full weekend with plenty of jumps. But she needs to do this in bite size pieces.

And you're a real friend to be concerned about her.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[op5e 0]

I am really inexperienced but this is my view on it. Pretty much my DZ only runs on weekends so when I return after 3 mths off I plan on jumping 3-4 times on the weekend doing solos. I want to jump at a DZ i know and with instructors that know my limits. I will not do B-Rels even though I really want to get them over with and will not jump with others or try anything fancy. After I am confident I am safe again in the sky I will do a conversion to a non student canopy and again no special moves on the canopy and basic landing.

After this I wish to bring this canopy to another DZ and jump for the week. Again I wish to progress slowly jumping solo for the first few jumps then starting to do my B-Rels. Unfortunately after my week of skydiving I probably wont get my B license like I hope, but I think I have increased my chances to jump the big blue in the future. For me if I do anything new (alti, suit etc..) I like to have a few jumps doing nothing special to convert to it. Some of my friends have rightly so encouraged me not to go to other DZs or boogies until I get my b license which I agree with. However since I jump at a small DZ I may have to go to another DZ to get the jump numbers up, in this case I will try to convince an instructor to come with me to minimise the number of new things.

So depending how your friend approaches this will depend if it will be a problem. If she takes it one step at a time, I do not see it being any different to any other <100 jumper as we all change rigs and we all travel to other DZs.

Again I am only new and wouldnt believe a word I say ;)

[Designer 0]

Your concern is real.

[Antidote 0]

Quote

I know that I'm relatively new to the sport and have a lot to learn, but I have got to ask about this.

A friend is looking to go to a DZ that she's not that familiar with, jump a rig that's not hers and doesn't fit right, borrow an elliptical canopy to jump (she'll still be less than a 1:1 wingloading), and try and learn to sit fly. It's also been about a month since she jumped. And the DZ that she's going to jump at has a lot more air traffic than she's used to as well as various obstacles - trees, swoop pond.

My reaction to the above is DO NOT DO IT!! Too many variables...to many things that are new.

Am I correct with my reaction to it? Is my fear for her safety justified?

Whoa, sounds pretty radical to me. Here, we got wingload restrictions for anyone with less than 200 jumps. You may not jump an elliptical canopy (regardless of wingload) until you have 400 jumps.

Those are the rules, and they've been written in blood.

Even at less than 1:1, the canopy is still elliptical. I think your friend is needlessly greatly increasing her risk of serious injury or death.

[PhreeZone 20]

Guess what? A Sabre2 is elliptical too Same with the Spectre, Navigator, Sigma Tandem main, and just aobut every canopy made after the Sabre came out. A Velocity is less elliptical then a Stiletto. So whats worse to fly, a Stiletto 120 loaded at 1:1 or a Velocity 120 loaded at 1:1 on its elliptical factor?

This whole thread just needs to die since its almost 2 months old now.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,990]

>You may not jump an elliptical canopy (regardless of wingload) until you
>have 400 jumps.

Someone with 200 jumps can't jump a Spectre 210? Or a Silhouette 230? Or a PD Navigator student canopy? But they could jump a Nova 120? That's odd.

[Antidote 0]

Heh, just reread the entire thread. I made the assumption we were talking something stilleto-VX-Katana like.

That should teach me to read posts more carefully

[Avion 0]

Quote

Quote

She signed a waiver.

Ron -- Why the emphasis on the waiver? That may be relevant from a DZ liability standpoint, but it does nothing to prevent someone from doing something stupid. I think the thread was motivated by a desire to protect the jumper, not the DZ. Without commenting on this specific situation -- which I'm not qualified to judge -- I like the idea that people who care about me will let me know when I'm making poor choices.

Its hysterical every time he says that.

Basically, he saying that, ultimately, everybody is responsible for their own choices.

People are gonna do what their gonna do. The waiver just explicitly releases everybody else from responsibility for one individuals actions.

So, the moral of the story is, choose wisely, or pay the price yourself.

[pash 0]

Quote

I think changing more than any one thing at a time is a bad idea. New DZ (1) with a new rig (2) and new parachute (3) while learning a new type of skydive (4) is way to many thing that *could* go wrong.

Add in that the person has only 40 total jumps and that is a lot of new stuff at one time.

Maybe I am a byproduct of over-emphasis on training but EVERY piece of advice I have ever hear agrees 100% with what Ron said: Change variables one at a time. Do not change so many variables for the first time on one jump. Lest ye owe much beer.

Go to a new DZ with semi-familiar gear. Try a new jump at a familiar DZ with familiar gear, etc...

My $0.02 from someone that could easily be in the same situation. Try changing one thing at a time - work up to each new variable.

And if she does it anyway - BLUE SKIES and BE SAFE!!

[jimoke 0]

Quote

ME: ya know thats a bad idea.
Them: I'll be fine.
Me: You are pushing it a bit to fast, and might get hurt.
Them :You don't know me.
Me:I have seen many people do the same thing and get hurt.
Them: I am smarter, faster, better than they were.
Me: Thats what they all thought as well.
Them: Leave me alone, you are just jelious.
Me: No, I am concerned.
Then: Did I ask you to be concerned...Who are you my Dad?
Me: No.
Them: Then leave me alone.

this is so true. but you did not finish the whole conversation.

100 jumps later

Them: i am sorry, dude I fucked up......I am sorry, I should have listened to everybody. the doctor says I should be jumping again in 12 weeks.

Me: get well soon bro!

I am labled as ultra-conservative in certain circles, I can live with that....it has worked for me so far. I have seen too many newbies that just won't listen to more experienced jumpers. I have seen to many naturals with exceptional learning skills pile in because they thought they were dialed in.
changing one thing at a time is a good idea, it took me 2 jumps to wear a pair of gloves
i am sorry, rant over
jimoke

The ground always, remembers where you are!